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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Train fine

232 replies

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:21

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

OP posts:
Hellohah · 12/05/2024 06:53

I only get the train twice a week now, but they have really clamped down on this.

We have 2 train operators (Northern and Trans Pennine) I can use and people will buy tickets for a particular train (because it is cheaper).

Northern runs at quarter to the hour. Trans Pennine at quarter past. If the Northern train is cancelled, people will understandably, get on the TP train. But some tickets aren't valid for both companies even if one is cancelled. I see at least 1 passenger per day getting fined the £100.

Probably 90% of those fines are for genuine mistakes.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, but that is the reality of train travel these days. I buy a special ticket, otherwise I'd be screwed each journey as I'm always in a rush and would definitely forget to buy a ticket most mornings 🤦🏻‍♀️

christmaspudding43 · 12/05/2024 07:12

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 19:51

So buying a full journey , like a £15 ticket , but not paying the extra £1.20 and trying to dodge that? Weird

Yes, called short faring. Say someone did that journey 5 days a week (not your brother, I know), it adds up over the year and to many fare dodgers is 'safer' than dodging the whole fare because they will use an excuse like oh I normally get off in the city centre but my plans changed today and I bought the ticket on autopilot. So sorry, I'll pay the difference now.

In a previous role I've seen all sorts of elaborate attempts to evade really quite small sums of money.

I'm not doubting your account of your brother but surely you can see that revenue protection will have heard it all before and that if they always 'use their discretion' there's no incentive for people not to fare dodge, particularly as lots view it as a victimless crime (as demonstrated by some on this thread) so you get people who would never dream of commiting other offences viewing this as fair game.

happypickle · 12/05/2024 07:22

peakygold · 11/05/2024 13:44

Police officers are there to support the Revenue officers, so there would have been a large contingent of uniformed people, but the Police would not have been physically looking at tickets, unless there was a fracas.
I absolutely love it when fare dodgers get caught.

I don't know ow why publicly paid police are acting as revenue protection for national rail. Can any other privately owned business borrow some officers to protect their revenue?

happypickle · 12/05/2024 07:37

If he had a valid ticket surely that is it and you just flash it and be on your way. Not sure how the inspector would have a chance to question a valid ticket?

Whammyammy · 12/05/2024 07:50

Hesitate a fare dodger, got caught and been fined. Tough

Tattletwat · 12/05/2024 07:50

Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

This is annoying part of your post, that you think someone should be treated differently because they are with their children. Nope he should have made sure he had a full ticket when he was with his children, he created the situation.

You should be treated the same children or no children, can you imagine if it was the cae just take you kids shoplifting with you because you should get treated differently.

Your brother messed up deal with it.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 12/05/2024 08:00

happypickle · 12/05/2024 07:37

If he had a valid ticket surely that is it and you just flash it and be on your way. Not sure how the inspector would have a chance to question a valid ticket?

The ticket scanners can flash up with "purchased after departure" based on the time stamp of the purchase, this makes it eligible for a fine.

conniecon · 12/05/2024 08:01

This happened to husband not long ago, he was running late for train and forgot to buy his usual online ticket until he was on the train and he got a fine because he was on the train when he bought it.

Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 08:02

Tattletwat · 12/05/2024 07:50

Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

This is annoying part of your post, that you think someone should be treated differently because they are with their children. Nope he should have made sure he had a full ticket when he was with his children, he created the situation.

You should be treated the same children or no children, can you imagine if it was the cae just take you kids shoplifting with you because you should get treated differently.

Your brother messed up deal with it.

Aren’t you a delight!

i would put my defence here and explain what I mean but I’ve done it repeatedly now and I’m tired of it

OP posts:
Tattletwat · 12/05/2024 08:51

Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 08:02

Aren’t you a delight!

i would put my defence here and explain what I mean but I’ve done it repeatedly now and I’m tired of it

Nope your brother fucked up and you think he should get treated differently to everyone else, and now you are moaning saying he's a good person never done it before. Most people who fuck up deal with with it and accept they are wrong.

Don't ask if you are unreasonable of you don't like the answers you are going to get.

Tattletwat · 12/05/2024 08:56

happypickle · 12/05/2024 07:22

I don't know ow why publicly paid police are acting as revenue protection for national rail. Can any other privately owned business borrow some officers to protect their revenue?

If it was a train station it was more than likely the British Transport Police, who are paid for by yhr rail company's not the public purse.

PrincessTeaSet · 12/05/2024 08:58

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 14:36

It's not a fact though? It's just what he told you and you're choosing to believe?

No one consciously makes a choice to stay on a train for extra stops and doesn't also think shit I haven't got a ticket for the next part.

Yes they do. It's the kind of thing I do all the time. See also parking in a time limited car park and forgetting to come back after 1.5 hours. Getting on a train going in the wrong direction. Going down the motorway in the wrong direction.

Doing something you routinely do but slightly different to normal is a really easy way to make mistakes. Especially when you have kids.

PrincessTeaSet · 12/05/2024 09:02

Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 08:02

Aren’t you a delight!

i would put my defence here and explain what I mean but I’ve done it repeatedly now and I’m tired of it

It's really annoying that this happened. But see it as getting penalised for a mistake, e.g. not realising there is a parking restriction. It occasionally happens to all of us. There's no way to tell who purposely tried to get out of paying and who made a mistake. Not worth getting angry or stressed about.

Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 10:21

Tattletwat · 12/05/2024 08:51

Nope your brother fucked up and you think he should get treated differently to everyone else, and now you are moaning saying he's a good person never done it before. Most people who fuck up deal with with it and accept they are wrong.

Don't ask if you are unreasonable of you don't like the answers you are going to get.

😴

OP posts:
Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 10:25

PrincessTeaSet · 12/05/2024 09:02

It's really annoying that this happened. But see it as getting penalised for a mistake, e.g. not realising there is a parking restriction. It occasionally happens to all of us. There's no way to tell who purposely tried to get out of paying and who made a mistake. Not worth getting angry or stressed about.

Yeah you’re right! Nothing that can be done now , a lesson learned

OP posts:
BIossomtoes · 12/05/2024 10:27

Justnavigating · 12/05/2024 10:25

Yeah you’re right! Nothing that can be done now , a lesson learned

It can. He can appeal. And he should.

RedHelenB · 12/05/2024 10:28

Same as buying a parking ticket when you get back to your car and realise wardens are about. Tough luck basically.

Bushmillsbabe · 12/05/2024 10:36

They were correct to fine him, but if they were aggressive in their behaviour, especially with children present, that's not ok. But I'm not sure he can do much about it unless he got the names of the officers involved? Then he could give some informal feedback around how his children felt and how they could and should have modified their approach. But equally, he could have made the decision to just accept it rather than argue yo avoid a confrontation that he was never likely to win. However hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I'm sure he was just trying to tell his side of the story
A bit rubbish, but not much can do I don't think unfortunately

christmaspudding43 · 12/05/2024 10:46

happypickle · 12/05/2024 07:22

I don't know ow why publicly paid police are acting as revenue protection for national rail. Can any other privately owned business borrow some officers to protect their revenue?

Someone else has already mentioned about BTP but also not all railway companies are run by private companies anymore.

VerySmileySarah · 12/05/2024 10:49

The revenue staff would have heard every excuse going. Without being mind readers how can they possibly distinguish between the genuine reasons & those who were intentionally trying to evade their fare. There is an appeals process in place. If your brother has evidence of all the correct journeys he’s made, he may have grounds for appeal. There was a big exercise at Oxford Station a few weeks ago with a similar set up to what you described with BTP & security in attendance.

Zizzagaaaaah · 12/05/2024 13:58

My daughter and all her friends got caught out last year coming back from the reading festival

They all bought return tickets , but trainline had 'split' the 2nd part
The 1st part was off peak the 2nd was for the time of train they originally booked

Wouldn't have been a problem except that they got the 1st train out of reading (6am) instead of the 8am train
So the spit fare 1st half was fine on off peak (it was bank holiday monday) any train, but the 2nd part was only valid for the 8am train
They got fined £50

I thought it was very unfair, as it was trainline that split the ticket, and they didn't realise it was a different type of ticket that wasn't really visible on the app. They assumed it was all any train like the 1st half

So they had paid but made a simple error by thinking the 2nd part of the spit ticket covered them for the journey like the 1st half did
Inspector was very rude
But lesson learnt the hard way

ArchaeoSpy · 12/05/2024 14:14

in the past 10/15 years ago it didnt help that you could get a ticket off the conductor but at the time what happens if the conductor is not available when getting off the train ?

Soontobe60 · 14/05/2024 08:28

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 21:02

He did have a valid ticket when he started the journey, just not to the station where he finished it.

So he didn’t have a valid ticket then!

BIossomtoes · 14/05/2024 08:51

Soontobe60 · 14/05/2024 08:28

So he didn’t have a valid ticket then!

He actually had two valid tickets - the one he had when he boarded the train and the one he bought to cover the remainder of the journey when the first valid ticket ran out. Hope he appeals.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 14/05/2024 08:58

BIossomtoes · 14/05/2024 08:51

He actually had two valid tickets - the one he had when he boarded the train and the one he bought to cover the remainder of the journey when the first valid ticket ran out. Hope he appeals.

If you buy a ticket after the journey has ended (which he did, as he was at his final stop when he saw the police), or after departure then no, he didn't have a valid ticket for the remainder of the journey. Don't know why you keep saying things like that when you've obviously no idea what you're talking about.