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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Train fine

232 replies

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:21

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

OP posts:
Yellowhammer09 · 11/05/2024 18:10

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 17:55

Yes , he had bought it after - but it was paid for , his journey was all paid for by the time he left the station and had his ticket scanned . The issue was that they knew he had done that and the opinion of the officer was that he only did it because they were there

By that logic though no one would ever buy a ticket in advance or get a fine as they could all just either not buy one if there was no one checking or buy the ticket when leaving the train if they saw they were checking tickets today.

The officer was correct in saying that if they were not there your brother wouldn't have brought the ticket. It's not like when he remembered later he would have gone back in and paid for the correct ticket.

But by that logic he's guilty until proven innocent 🤷‍♀️ He had the ticket for the journey, just purchased at a strange time.

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:10

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:07

But the entire journey isn't being questioned, he had a valid ticket for the first part. It's only the second part he didn't have a valid ticket for as he decided to stay on for more stops, so that section must have cost just £1.20.

He bought the tickets for that journey and they cost more than 1.20

Nobody spent 1.20 on anything.

mondaytosunday · 11/05/2024 18:11

So you think because he's a good dad he should be let off? These officers have heard it all. They have to take a no excuses stance and if they hadn't been there he would have dodged his fare now wouldn't he?

Londonrach1 · 11/05/2024 18:13

He should have bought the ticket. However you can't buy a ticket on our station (machine is broken and they closed the ticket office) so I also catch the guard tell them I need a ticket, always get told to get in and they pop down to sell me one....I often gone 2-3 stations before the guard finds me but never ever had a problem so sometimes you can't buy a ticket before...

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:15

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:56

On advance singles it says the ticket you purchase is valid for a specific train at a specific time. It's very possible the OP's brother bought this kind of ticket, especially as it was only £1.20.

No it was just a ticket for any time . But they saw it had just been purchased as they saw him on the phone and said you have just booked that and he said yes I have because xxx . It wasn’t £1.20 , it was more ( about £6 I think ) but £1.20 is how much extra it would have been when he originally bought the ticket to the city centre , if he had got it to the stop he got off at instead of just to the city centre ) .

So , it was the same as if he had purchased it whilst on the train , but as they saw him stop and go on the phone they knew he had got it after

OP posts:
FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:17

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:10

He bought the tickets for that journey and they cost more than 1.20

Nobody spent 1.20 on anything.

Ok, my mistake, it cost him £5.20 for three people to go a few stops on what is clearly a single ticket. He got fined for buying a ticket for a later train, presumably because the ticket he bought specified the train time such as an advanced single where you travel on the particular train only and he was on an earlier train. Is there a reason you're being so pedantic for the sake of it?

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:19

It's not being pedantic to point out that you have no grasp on the situation

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:20

mondaytosunday · 11/05/2024 18:11

So you think because he's a good dad he should be let off? These officers have heard it all. They have to take a no excuses stance and if they hadn't been there he would have dodged his fare now wouldn't he?

No it’s not because he’s a good dad . That was just me explaining why I felt bad - just talking about his character .

Yes, had he not been there then he would have dodged the fare for those few stations as he probably still wouldn’t have realised as he didn’t realise when he was on the train . It’s not like he sat on the train and thought “ oh I’ll go a bit further even though I haven’t paid and chance it “ .

If he had done that - not that he would - but he’s the sort that would have said to me “ oh bloody hell , I stayed on a few extra stops and didn’t pay and I got caught , I won’t be doing that again ! “ He’s angry at himself for it but not because he took the risk but because it just didn’t cross his mind when he stayed on .

OP posts:
BobbyBiscuits · 11/05/2024 18:21

I think it's BC it was police, rather than TIs. But it still seems a bit heavy handed. It happens though. As you say, it's an area rife with fare dodging and they've clearly deployed loads of officers so I guess they weren't letting anyone go.
It's a piss take that the fare he paid could meaningfully be said to be valid in 10 mins time, but not currently. All fares should relate to any train on that route. I got caught on the 'wrong train' once, fully paid up but had gone on a few minutes different. So it was run by a different company!? He could appeal but best to pay up and just move on sadly.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:21

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:15

No it was just a ticket for any time . But they saw it had just been purchased as they saw him on the phone and said you have just booked that and he said yes I have because xxx . It wasn’t £1.20 , it was more ( about £6 I think ) but £1.20 is how much extra it would have been when he originally bought the ticket to the city centre , if he had got it to the stop he got off at instead of just to the city centre ) .

So , it was the same as if he had purchased it whilst on the train , but as they saw him stop and go on the phone they knew he had got it after

A ticket for any time doesn't mean you can use it for journeys that started prior to you buying the ticket though. And as I said in a previous post you have to have a valid ticket for your journey when you board the train, which he didn't, unless it's from a station where you're unable to buy one.

Do you honestly think if the police hadn't been there and he'd made it all the way home before he remembered he would have purchased a retrospective ticket from his sofa? Or would he have chalked it up to a mistake? In which case this is why he's been fined.. he's only bought the ticket because he was going to get caught.

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 18:21

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:19

It's not being pedantic to point out that you have no grasp on the situation

Quite.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:22

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:10

He bought the tickets for that journey and they cost more than 1.20

Nobody spent 1.20 on anything.

If he had added those stops originally it would have been £1.20 extra . As part of the ticket for his whole journey back . But the price of the city centre to where he got off as a seperate ticket was £6 so that’s what he bought when he realised he wasn’t covered for that part .

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 11/05/2024 18:22

What I dont understand is, why does he get a bus then a train by himself, then a return train and bus with his kids, but stayed on the train today to get off nearer to home? How come he doesn’t stay on the train to get off nearer to home every time?

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:24

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:19

It's not being pedantic to point out that you have no grasp on the situation

You're adding literally nothing to this thread other than trying to point out mistakes. Are you that bored?

OP's brother didn't have a valid ticket to cover his journey when he boarded the train, he only bought the extra ticket when he saw the police so he'd travelled without a ticket on the last leg of his journey and got caught for it. What's not to grasp? He's been fined and rightly so.

Soontobe60 · 11/05/2024 18:24

It’s not like he sat on the train and thought “ oh I’ll go a bit further even though I haven’t paid and chance it “
Of course he did 😂

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:27

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:24

You're adding literally nothing to this thread other than trying to point out mistakes. Are you that bored?

OP's brother didn't have a valid ticket to cover his journey when he boarded the train, he only bought the extra ticket when he saw the police so he'd travelled without a ticket on the last leg of his journey and got caught for it. What's not to grasp? He's been fined and rightly so.

I've actually been constructive, the guy should appeal and get his money back, also ask for a refund on the difference

fungipie · 11/05/2024 18:27

YABU- it is the excuse used all the time by fare dodgers 'I forgot'

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:29

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:21

A ticket for any time doesn't mean you can use it for journeys that started prior to you buying the ticket though. And as I said in a previous post you have to have a valid ticket for your journey when you board the train, which he didn't, unless it's from a station where you're unable to buy one.

Do you honestly think if the police hadn't been there and he'd made it all the way home before he remembered he would have purchased a retrospective ticket from his sofa? Or would he have chalked it up to a mistake? In which case this is why he's been fined.. he's only bought the ticket because he was going to get caught.

No he probably wouldn’t have .

Im not arguing that the rules are wrong . I did say at the beginning of the post that I get that rules are there and if you break them you have to pay . I have not asked for advice on how to challenge this . I just personally think that it’s a situation that could quite clearly be explained ( he’s not just saying that he forgot - he showed them his tickets from his whole journey , explained that he simply stayed on the train and that he just didn’t think and he paid before he reached them ) .

Technically he had paid for the journey . He had “dodged the fare” technically too . But in the grand scheme of things , no money was lost .. by the time he reached the officer the fare was paid . They scanned the ticket - knowing they wouldn’t accept it so it wouldn’t be used - then fined him . So he has paid a fare and a fine . The fine was given because of the officers opinion that he had only done it because he saw them . It would have felt more acceptable if they said “ no sorry , that’s for a future train so we can’t accept it “ then not scanned it and gave him the fine .

I’m not asking if the officer did nothing wrong legally - I am saying that I think it was unnecessary and does anyone agree . Not everyone does and that’s fine , but that’s what the post was about .

OP posts:
FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:31

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:27

I've actually been constructive, the guy should appeal and get his money back, also ask for a refund on the difference

On what grounds would he appeal? They boarded a train without a ticket valid for their journey.

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 11/05/2024 18:31

I'm very sympathetic OP. I'm actually surprised how many people on this thread are being so harsh.
I think, under the circumstances that he'd already bought a ticket to the city centre they should have let him off.
A fare dodger wouldn't have bought a ticket at all surely? They wouldn't just try to save £1.20.
I think he was unfortunate. I've had situations where I've ended up getting on or off a station before or after the one booked, and not had a problem when I explained.
Trains are so ridiculously over-priced in this country, the least they can do is use a bit of common sense in cases like the one you cited.
Sorry your getting so many negative responses here.

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 11/05/2024 18:33

*you're 🤭

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:33

Has anyone ever been shopping , paid , then realised your child has a drink in their hand maybe ?

So - someone is in a shop . Goes to the tills , pays . As they are about to leave they realise they have a drink in their hand or their child is holding an item of shopping and it’s not been paid for . So they go back and pay before leaving the shop . They as they’re leaving the security guard asks to see the receipt and says “ no , I saw you turn around and go back . The time on this receipt is after you had gone through checkout with it . You only went back and paid because I saw you and if I wasn’t here you would have carried on “ so then charges them for shoplifting .

Would that be ok ? Technically they have passed the tills - and passed the barriers . Maybe they would have just carried on if security wasn’t there .. but they didn’t , they paid - so the store didn’t lose out .

OP posts:
OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:34

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:31

On what grounds would he appeal? They boarded a train without a ticket valid for their journey.

I've been fined in almost identical circumstances and appealed it and got a refund. I have years worth of transactions for regular monthly travelcards which I showed and they refunded it, because they accepted it was a mistake.

Skybluepinky · 11/05/2024 18:34

He broke the rules and got caught no idea why u think otherwise.

TheChippendenSpook · 11/05/2024 18:35

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:15

No it was just a ticket for any time . But they saw it had just been purchased as they saw him on the phone and said you have just booked that and he said yes I have because xxx . It wasn’t £1.20 , it was more ( about £6 I think ) but £1.20 is how much extra it would have been when he originally bought the ticket to the city centre , if he had got it to the stop he got off at instead of just to the city centre ) .

So , it was the same as if he had purchased it whilst on the train , but as they saw him stop and go on the phone they knew he had got it after

It costs more to buy a ticket on the train because you're supposed to have a ticket before you board.