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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Train fine

232 replies

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:21

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

OP posts:
Differentstarts · 11/05/2024 16:33

That old chestnut. I bet he does it every week. You can't blame the police because he got caught and he doesn't like it.

Richard1985 · 11/05/2024 16:44

I didn’t even realise police checked train tickets. I suppose they will do anything to avoid having to deal with knife crime, car theft, drug dealing, sex abuse etc.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 16:45

ARichtGoodDram · 11/05/2024 15:48

It’s obviously a station with a massive fare dodging problem if they’ve done such a staff intensive operation so they’re going to have loads of people claiming it was their first time ever.

theres bound to be people, like your brother, who’ve get caught out the first time they do something, but that’s just life and you just have to accept that you’re not always as lucky as some others. You wouldn’t expect your brother to be excused from speeding just because it was his first time being caught.

Oh yeah it definitely is that sort of station , the area it’s in .

OP posts:
OneTC · 11/05/2024 16:50

Richard1985 · 11/05/2024 16:44

I didn’t even realise police checked train tickets. I suppose they will do anything to avoid having to deal with knife crime, car theft, drug dealing, sex abuse etc.

They don't. They normally back up the inspectors. The actual inspectors (not just stain staff) in our area look enough like police that it warrants a second look though so it would be easy to make that mistake.

PoppyCherryDog · 11/05/2024 16:53

Thank you for entertaining me this afternoon OP. I love a good aibu thread where the consensus is YABU but the OP just won’t accept it 😂

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 16:55

NoTouch · 11/05/2024 15:42

He paid for a ticket on a later train. He did not have a valid ticket for the train he was on.

"Bloody" common sense tells you paying for a ticket on the 9:20pm train is not a get out of jail card when you get caught out fare dodging without a ticket for the 7:20pm train.

You don’t pay for the train, you pay for the journey. As long as you have a valid ticket - which he had - it makes no odds when it’s purchased. You’ve paid. I really hope he appeals because there’s not a snowball in hell’s chance of him losing.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:16

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 16:55

You don’t pay for the train, you pay for the journey. As long as you have a valid ticket - which he had - it makes no odds when it’s purchased. You’ve paid. I really hope he appeals because there’s not a snowball in hell’s chance of him losing.

He clearly bought an advance ticket to be used on a specific train, at a specific time. Hence why he didn't have a valid ticket.

Yellowhammer09 · 11/05/2024 17:20

YANBU, it's very shite considering he had a ticket to cover all parts of his journey.

I've had this happen to me before. I normally buy a ticket when the inspector comes along, but once they didn't and I got to the terminus without a valid ticket. I bought one there and then and all was okay.

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 17:20

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:16

He clearly bought an advance ticket to be used on a specific train, at a specific time. Hence why he didn't have a valid ticket.

You just made that up. There’s nothing in OP’s posts to indicate that.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:33

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 17:20

You just made that up. There’s nothing in OP’s posts to indicate that.

The OP literally says the ticket he booked was for the train after, which is why he's been issued with a fine because they noticed the time of the train on the next ticket as the one after the one he got on.

The only type of ticket where the train is specified is an advance ticket.

YoureALizardHarry11 · 11/05/2024 17:43

NoTouch · 11/05/2024 15:42

He paid for a ticket on a later train. He did not have a valid ticket for the train he was on.

"Bloody" common sense tells you paying for a ticket on the 9:20pm train is not a get out of jail card when you get caught out fare dodging without a ticket for the 7:20pm train.

But most train fares aren’t for a particular train, they entitle someone to get on any train going to the destination required. The only tickets that require someone board a specific train are advance tickets. I’ve been using trains for years.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 17:47

PoppyCherryDog · 11/05/2024 16:53

Thank you for entertaining me this afternoon OP. I love a good aibu thread where the consensus is YABU but the OP just won’t accept it 😂

I don’t need to accept it - it’s clear from my post that I believe it’s unfair but know that within the law what happened wasn’t technically wrong . I knew not everyone would agree with me and that’s fine, it’s opinion .

What I’m not accepting is comments making wild assumptions about my brothers character or intentions .

OP posts:
BirthdayRainbow · 11/05/2024 17:47

My dd prepaid her ticket and needed to print it at the station. They wouldn't let her and fined her even though she could prove she'd paid. Fucking jobs worth.

OneTC · 11/05/2024 17:50

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:33

The OP literally says the ticket he booked was for the train after, which is why he's been issued with a fine because they noticed the time of the train on the next ticket as the one after the one he got on.

The only type of ticket where the train is specified is an advance ticket.

That's just the way the booking system works. It actually specifies at point of sale that you don't need to use it for the train you selected

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 17:51

Yellowhammer09 · 11/05/2024 17:20

YANBU, it's very shite considering he had a ticket to cover all parts of his journey.

I've had this happen to me before. I normally buy a ticket when the inspector comes along, but once they didn't and I got to the terminus without a valid ticket. I bought one there and then and all was okay.

Yes that’s the thing - by the time it came to scan the ticket on leaving , he had a paid ticket .

Yes , he had bought it after - but it was paid for , his journey was all paid for by the time he left the station and had his ticket scanned . The issue was that they knew he had done that and the opinion of the officer was that he only did it because they were there . Fine for them to have that opinion , but when it came to checking tickets he had one and he explained the situation and showed them all tickets for the whole journey so I think it could have been dealt with better , he has paid for his entire journey and now a fine and regardless of what’s procedure I believe it was unfair .

OP posts:
OneTC · 11/05/2024 17:55

Is he appealing?

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 17:55

Yes , he had bought it after - but it was paid for , his journey was all paid for by the time he left the station and had his ticket scanned . The issue was that they knew he had done that and the opinion of the officer was that he only did it because they were there

By that logic though no one would ever buy a ticket in advance or get a fine as they could all just either not buy one if there was no one checking or buy the ticket when leaving the train if they saw they were checking tickets today.

The officer was correct in saying that if they were not there your brother wouldn't have brought the ticket. It's not like when he remembered later he would have gone back in and paid for the correct ticket.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:56

OneTC · 11/05/2024 17:50

That's just the way the booking system works. It actually specifies at point of sale that you don't need to use it for the train you selected

On advance singles it says the ticket you purchase is valid for a specific train at a specific time. It's very possible the OP's brother bought this kind of ticket, especially as it was only £1.20.

drusth · 11/05/2024 17:57

Urgh some people are just jobsworths, OP.

A bit of discretion should be applied.

I had train tickets for a few people on my phone and the 4G wasn’t great so the conductor couldn’t see the actual tickets. He just let it go.

And then there was the conductor who didn’t let my mum off when she forgot her disabled railcard.

People are just doing their jobs but it does make you appreciate the ones who are smart enough to see when someone’s not a fair dodger.

I hope your DB gets some good luck to make up for this soon Flowers

Bellavida99 · 11/05/2024 17:58

Our station doesn’t have barriers as there’s lots of platforms and exits so they have a few times a month where lots of police and rail staff at at the top of the stairs and I’m always amazed how many people are getting a fine. If you don’t have a ticket for your journey you’ll get a fine. I’m imagining everyone standing at the bottom of the steps buying a ticket when they see the police checks at the top it’s crazy to think that would be acceptable. As everyone says he wouldn’t have bought a ticket if the police checks weren’t going on

Notellinganyone · 11/05/2024 18:01

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 11/05/2024 13:26

I suspect the officers don’t have the power to make exceptions like that, @Justnavigating. If they had, and other passengers who were also getting fined had heard the officer let him off, it could have caused a lot of unnecessary aggro for the officers there.

It is a shame - your brother made a genuine mistake, and corrected it as soon as he realised.

But they absolutely do. I’ve been commuting for 20 years and different thicket inspectors respond very differently to people with no/wrong tickets. Some are much more lenient than others.

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:02

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 17:56

On advance singles it says the ticket you purchase is valid for a specific train at a specific time. It's very possible the OP's brother bought this kind of ticket, especially as it was only £1.20.

The difference in fares was 1.20, not the entire journey

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/05/2024 18:02

They wouldn’t know what kind of person he is. They wouldn’t know if he was being honest and genuinely forgot, or if he was trying to fare dodge.

Im afraid your post reads like exceptionalism. Fines are for everyone else, not for your DB. He’s obviously respectable. 🧐

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:05

Notellinganyone · 11/05/2024 18:01

But they absolutely do. I’ve been commuting for 20 years and different thicket inspectors respond very differently to people with no/wrong tickets. Some are much more lenient than others.

Yeah once I got fined for going out of zone and my friend didn't. Then the person who fined me realised that me and my friend were together (he'd already let her off and to go through) and was embarrassed and apologetic.

Also waived on appeal

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:07

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:02

The difference in fares was 1.20, not the entire journey

But the entire journey isn't being questioned, he had a valid ticket for the first part. It's only the second part he didn't have a valid ticket for as he decided to stay on for more stops, so that section must have cost just £1.20.

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