Train fine

[Justnavigating]

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

Nope. It's too outing to tell you how I know BUT I can categorically tell you that BTP nor any force would be checking tickets or coming out just for a ticking offence as it is a civil and not a criminal matter.

Rail staff don’t act in good faith and they seem to be very keen to fine whoever they can. They certainly treat you as “guilty until proven innocent”.

I was once on a train which waited on the same platform as another, both trains in front of each other. They were the same company and all the time you'd get people get on the wrong one, but often they’d realise their mistake in time, as someone would come around checking tickets before the train leaves.

But on one occasion, no one came around to check tickets while the train was waiting. They waited until it left the station, and a penalty fare officer came around checking tickets. Sure enough, someone had got on this train when they should have got on the one in front. They explained their mistake, the officer knew the other train was in front, but they still gave this man a £100 fine, simply for getting on the wrong train. He had the appropriate ticket for the other train.

I know there’ll be some jobsworth along to tell me that he deserved it etc, but handing out fines for honest mistakes is wrong. Especially when the same fines are coming from trains which seem to constantly be significantly delayed and cancelled.

Some of the attitudes of the workers are disgusting.

Well yes. I also know that they do go to gatelines to sort out issues. Not because of the ticket itself but usually because there is an argument going on between the customer and rail staff. I've been there.

It’s not about intent though. He didn’t pay the fare he took. Can he honestly say he’s paid every single time in the past with no exceptions and there’s absolutely no chance he’s also forgotten in the past. Probably not partly because there’s a problem with open stations without access gates. But if there’s access gates they need to be manned which requires an investment. This is a valid way of train companies recouping some of that money.

BTP do 100% attend for the sting days. They don't check tickets but they are there as a visible deterrent to kicking off with the revenue collectors. At larger stations near me they have also done joint operations with knife arches and ticket inspections.

The revenue collectors for our local operator do look more like PCSOs than revenue collectors so I can see how casual observers make that mistake

I was at Euston the other week and there were a dozen or more people - actual ticket inspectors and what looked like BTP - doing a mass inspection.

They were on the ramp between the main concourse and the platform. And they checked the ticket of every single person who got off the morning commuter train at that platform.

Well, the inspectors checked the tickets (they all had ticket scanners) and the BTP looked like they were observing / there for backup / preventing people from avoiding the inspectors.

And a couple of them were also ensuring that passengers of that particular train all went up the correct exit lane on the ramp and could not avoid having their tickets checked by sneaking across to an adjacent lane.

It seems fairly common sense that BTP would be present to support this kind of operation. Presume that this is the sort of operation that the OP's brother was caught by. And that they weren't just there for him, per se.

You went into a shop and bought four items but only scanned three at the checkout.

Most people would say you are a shoplifter or thief.

Same thing however unintended.