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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Train fine

232 replies

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:21

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

OP posts:
TheChippendenSpook · 11/05/2024 18:36

And again... police officers don't check to see if people have tickets,even BTP officers. I know, because I was one.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:36

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 11/05/2024 18:31

I'm very sympathetic OP. I'm actually surprised how many people on this thread are being so harsh.
I think, under the circumstances that he'd already bought a ticket to the city centre they should have let him off.
A fare dodger wouldn't have bought a ticket at all surely? They wouldn't just try to save £1.20.
I think he was unfortunate. I've had situations where I've ended up getting on or off a station before or after the one booked, and not had a problem when I explained.
Trains are so ridiculously over-priced in this country, the least they can do is use a bit of common sense in cases like the one you cited.
Sorry your getting so many negative responses here.

Thank you .

This is my point - if he was a fare dodger , why would he pay for the majority of the journey and then not the last few stops ! I would think this was clear . Had he no proof that he had actually been on the same train for a long time then I would understand that they could think it’s a lie and he’s just got on the train at the city centre and not paid for the journey .

Im not surprised at the comments on here - MN can be full of some horrible people . I wouldn’t mind just the YANBU but the wild assumptions and accusations are just unnecessary x

OP posts:
OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:36

It costs more money if you use Trainline. If you book with your local train company it's the same as the ticket halls

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 11/05/2024 18:38

OneTC · 11/05/2024 18:34

I've been fined in almost identical circumstances and appealed it and got a refund. I have years worth of transactions for regular monthly travelcards which I showed and they refunded it, because they accepted it was a mistake.

So actually because you have years worth of regular monthly travel cards they could see it was a mistake, in which case that's entirely different to the OP's brother who usually gets the bus for the last leg of the journey

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:41

TheChippendenSpook · 11/05/2024 18:36

And again... police officers don't check to see if people have tickets,even BTP officers. I know, because I was one.

Maybe possible that the person who checked wasn’t a police officer then and there were just police around supporting , I don’t know I wasn’t there

OP posts:
VivX · 11/05/2024 19:34

He didn't pay for a ticket for the journey he took, according to the rules of carriage.
He was caught and got fined as a result.

It's not even an ambiguous situation.

Your anger is misplaced.

VivX · 11/05/2024 19:36

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 18:36

Thank you .

This is my point - if he was a fare dodger , why would he pay for the majority of the journey and then not the last few stops ! I would think this was clear . Had he no proof that he had actually been on the same train for a long time then I would understand that they could think it’s a lie and he’s just got on the train at the city centre and not paid for the journey .

Im not surprised at the comments on here - MN can be full of some horrible people . I wouldn’t mind just the YANBU but the wild assumptions and accusations are just unnecessary x

Buying a ticket for part of the journey and then staying on longer is a common fare-dodging ploy.

Differentstarts · 11/05/2024 19:40

Soontobe60 · 11/05/2024 18:22

What I dont understand is, why does he get a bus then a train by himself, then a return train and bus with his kids, but stayed on the train today to get off nearer to home? How come he doesn’t stay on the train to get off nearer to home every time?

I would think he does he just got caught this time. And is now acting hard done by

Lovesgotme · 11/05/2024 19:42

Something not right about this story. I can tell you categorically that the police are not trained or authorised to check railway tickets. Nor would they come out to a station just because someone had no ticket.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 19:50

Lovesgotme · 11/05/2024 19:42

Something not right about this story. I can tell you categorically that the police are not trained or authorised to check railway tickets. Nor would they come out to a station just because someone had no ticket.

They didn’t come out for him , they were there already.

OP posts:
Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 19:51

VivX · 11/05/2024 19:36

Buying a ticket for part of the journey and then staying on longer is a common fare-dodging ploy.

So buying a full journey , like a £15 ticket , but not paying the extra £1.20 and trying to dodge that? Weird

OP posts:
Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 19:56

Differentstarts · 11/05/2024 19:40

I would think he does he just got caught this time. And is now acting hard done by

Well you think wrong .

He usually takes the children into the city centre for lunch / shopping / cinema - something to do . Today he didn’t as he was taking them to a soft play local instead . He doesn’t usually get the train back from the city centre because the bus stops right outside his house . But the walk from the station in the city centre to the bus stop is quite a walk so as he didn’t need to go into the city centre and the train he was on was going near his house , a 5 min walk , he decided to stay on as that 5 min walk is easier than walking all the way across the city centre . Usually he doesn’t mind walking across the city centre as he will be going to the shops / restaurant / cinema etc there .

OP posts:
Livelovebehappy · 11/05/2024 20:04

The police don’t know your brother, nor his circumstances. All they saw was someone who appeared to have been trying to dodge buying the proper ticket. They probably had the same excuse from the dozens of fare dodgers before him, and the dozens of fare dodgers after him. How are they supposed to know the genuine ones who ‘forgot’ from the ones who are fare dodging deliberately?

VivX · 11/05/2024 20:10

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 19:51

So buying a full journey , like a £15 ticket , but not paying the extra £1.20 and trying to dodge that? Weird

People do all sorts - they don't always make sense, as many AIBU posts demonstrate.

Having an app, a partial ticket, a ticket for a different time, an old ticket, any of a hundred common excuses... they will have heard it all before.

Your DB either had a valid ticket for the journey he made or he didn't.

As he didn't, your anger is misplaced and YABU.

Woohow · 11/05/2024 20:34

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:35

He did not try to dodge the fare . He made an error .

But the problem is... that's what they all say.

TheChippendenSpook · 11/05/2024 20:45

Lovesgotme · 11/05/2024 19:42

Something not right about this story. I can tell you categorically that the police are not trained or authorised to check railway tickets. Nor would they come out to a station just because someone had no ticket.

BTP would.

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 20:54

Woohow · 11/05/2024 20:34

But the problem is... that's what they all say.

It doesn’t matter what they say or if it’s true. The fact remains that he had a valid ticket that was scanned and still got a fine.

TheChippendenSpook · 11/05/2024 20:56

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 20:54

It doesn’t matter what they say or if it’s true. The fact remains that he had a valid ticket that was scanned and still got a fine.

It will be because the rule is that you are supposed to be in possession of a valid ticket before you travel. You're brother wasn't and he showed them a ticket that he'd just bought, that was for a different service to the one he travelled on.

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 21:02

He did have a valid ticket when he started the journey, just not to the station where he finished it.

Guiltyaboutwork · 11/05/2024 21:09

VivX · 11/05/2024 19:34

He didn't pay for a ticket for the journey he took, according to the rules of carriage.
He was caught and got fined as a result.

It's not even an ambiguous situation.

Your anger is misplaced.

Agree with this. An unfortunate mistake that I presume he won’t repeat. Police or BTP are there for these checks on buses and trains because some people get very aggressive when fined.

Also £1.20 may not be a lot but do it as a commute one way for 28 days and it’s £33.60. Some people caught will have genuinely forgotten. However if you allow a persistent fare dodger to just pay the fare not the penalty it will still be cost effective to dodge the fares. The inspector does doesn’t know which group OPs brother or anyone else they caught falls into.

DaisyHaites · 11/05/2024 21:39

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:42

Well they do , because he did .

When I get trains - I usually go within certain zones so it’s all included anyway , but I’ll still select a start and end station - I’ll regularly decide to get off at a different station than I intended , for various reasons . It doesn’t matter to me as my ticket includes all within the zones , but - before this - had I got a ticket to a station out of those zones , so not included , because of what I’m used to I probably wouldn’t think twice about doing the same

Incidentally, outside of TfL, a lot of train tickets specifically don’t allow this.

I can’t, for example, book a train ticket from my home station to the one after my nearest city and get off at the city because the through ticket is cheaper, and I can’t get out at the barriers. It’s in the terms of the ticket. You need to book a ticket for your journey.

Our rail ticketing system is rubbish and leaves a lot to be desired, but you need to follow the rules or risk fines.

Woohow · 12/05/2024 04:47

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 20:54

It doesn’t matter what they say or if it’s true. The fact remains that he had a valid ticket that was scanned and still got a fine.

No it was not valid, he bought it after he travelled.

Queenfierce · 12/05/2024 05:32

Thing is if he didn't get thr ticket to said station before he boarded then you see their point he knew he should have gotten off at the stop he paid up to

AgentJohnson · 12/05/2024 05:49

but surely those that regularly dodge fares wouldn’t have an app set up with their card details on that they could quickly access and pay so quickly on

You wouldn’t believe the petty things people do to get one over on the ‘the system’. The amount of petty opportunistic thieving that self checkout has encouraged in some is mind boggling.

it really depends on the T&C’s of the train operating company, where I live you need to be in possession of a valid ticket for the entire journey before you board the train. Buying a ticket after the fact would result in a fine. Thankfully, tapping in an out where I live makes it harder to forget.

dottiedodah · 12/05/2024 06:25

Look I agree he was badly treated.Howevet he didn't buy the ticket as he should have. It seems a bit of a slow day for the cops with 15 of them to collect fines! He can complain about treatment but they will probably still want the fine I expect. This is a deterrent for future reference.