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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Train fine

232 replies

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 13:21

Firstly - I know rules are in place for a reason and that when it comes down to it , you don’t pay you get a fine . But this happened to my brother today and it made me really angry for him !

He collects his children from an area about 30 min from the city centre . He gets the train . He usually gets the bus to the city centre then the train , then gets off at the city centre on the way back and takes them for food in the city centre as a treat then gets the bus home . So he gets a single to get the children then he gets a family ticket back to the city centre . Today , he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives . When he arrived at the station near his hours he saw police checking tickets at the exit and then he realised he hadn’t got the ticket back to this station , only to the city centre a few stops before . So he went on his app and purchased a ticket quickly for him and the children from the city centre to where he was getting off . He said he just didn’t think when he was on the train . But he paid it . If he had originally booked it back to this station it would have only been £1.20 more but he got the ticket on his app from the city centre to this stop that cost him £5.20 . He did it as he got off the train as he realised at that point when he saw the police , that his ticket wasn’t valid.

So , he then walked over and showed them and they said they saw that he had just done that and the time was different ( they could see it was for trains after as he had just booked it ) . He explained what had happened and that he just forgot so that’s why he had done it and that the fare had now been paid but they said that he wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t been there so they gave him a fine - £50 if paid within a certain amount of time £100 if not . He isn’t confrontational and he had his children with him . He did say to them that he had paid the fare so did they really need to give him the fine and he said the officer was quite rude and said that that’s what happens when you try to dodge fares . He has said that if they weren’t there it’s likely that he wouldn’t have even realised he hadn’t paid for those stops on his return , but he did and he did pay for the ticket - so technically he has paid for the ticket and still has the fine .

Im really angry for him . It’s a small station ( he said there were about 15 officers ) it is in a not very nice area and and area where I imagine people would just get on and not pay ( it’s rarely staffed , just machines ) so I get that they are clamping down on it but he realised his mistake and he said he was really embarrassed as about 5 officers surrounded him and his children as though he was a criminal and the one who spoke to him was really rude .

Not that it’s relevant but he really is a good man . He goes every week to collect his children for the weekend from their mother who moved quite far away . He collects them and returns them on the train , he’s a great dad - he would never try to not pay a fare . He works hard … I know the officers don’t know this but when I know there are people that would deliberately not pay and when caught would give fake details - it just angers me . Surely they could have seen that he had paid ( so in this instance just warned him ) but to slap a fine on him and treat him like that when he was with his children it’s just made me so angry .

YABU - he didn’t pay , he shouldn’t have forgot , tough luck

YANBU - the officer could have been lenient or at least not treated him like a criminal

OP posts:
Dotjones · 11/05/2024 14:22

Also ( again I’m not saying the officers should have considered this ) but surely those that regularly dodge fares wouldn’t have an app set up with their card details on that they could quickly access and pay so quickly on !

Definitely not true I'm afraid, the first thing an intentional fare-dodger will do is set up the app so they can pay really quickly if they see the inspector coming.

socks1107 · 11/05/2024 14:23

He tried to fare dodge, simple as and he got caught. He most likely does most weeks but doesn't tell you that.
He got caught that's how it goes.

NoTouch · 11/05/2024 14:26

he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives

Lets be completely honest. He either paid a short fare to save money, or he decided after buying the ticket to risk taking a longer journey without paying.

"Forgot" doesn't come into it, he actively chose.

He took a risk, then tried to avoid being "caught" by buying a ticket only when he knew the inspectors were on. Then further escalated the situation when caught by still trying to get out of a valid, legally and morally, fine.

Your anger to the officers who were simply doing their job only goes to show you are both cut from the same cloth.

Janjk · 11/05/2024 14:27

The thing is the rest of us are paying more because of people who 'forget' to pay. I doubt he'll forget in future.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:29

For everyone saying he probably regularly does this - the extra was £1.20 . Thats how much extra he would have had to pay for the tickets for the few extra stations . Why on earth would he pay for a part of the journey and then just try to dodge the fare for the rest because it’s £1.20 more ? He is not short of money , paying it wouldn’t have been an issue he just didn’t think

OP posts:
Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:30

NoTouch · 11/05/2024 14:26

he decided to stay on the train and not get off at the city centre but a few stops later at a station near where he lives

Lets be completely honest. He either paid a short fare to save money, or he decided after buying the ticket to risk taking a longer journey without paying.

"Forgot" doesn't come into it, he actively chose.

He took a risk, then tried to avoid being "caught" by buying a ticket only when he knew the inspectors were on. Then further escalated the situation when caught by still trying to get out of a valid, legally and morally, fine.

Your anger to the officers who were simply doing their job only goes to show you are both cut from the same cloth.

Are you ok ?

OP posts:
trampoline123 · 11/05/2024 14:30

I get why you're annoyed for him. Sounds like he struggles and tries his best for his family. It sucks they were there.

Especially annoying as so many people just don't pay, walk on buses without paying, jump barriers etc and don't give a crap or get reprimanded.

oakleaffy · 11/05/2024 14:31

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:14

Some days they do targeted operations at one particular station or on one particular line.

That's what we get round my way anyway. Turn up and there's a good 20+ team of ticket inspectors and police

Real police or Transport police?
Im astonished that real police deal with fare dodging- but have seen armed police at Swindon station before - looked like quite powerful weapons, too,
presumably not after fare dodgers!

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 14:32

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:29

For everyone saying he probably regularly does this - the extra was £1.20 . Thats how much extra he would have had to pay for the tickets for the few extra stations . Why on earth would he pay for a part of the journey and then just try to dodge the fare for the rest because it’s £1.20 more ? He is not short of money , paying it wouldn’t have been an issue he just didn’t think

It doesn't matter if it's £1.20 though? It's not the cost that matters it's the fact he obviously thought he could get away with not paying the extra and therefore chose not to pay for the correct ticket. The fact he has lots of money makes zero difference. He thought he could get away with it and today he got caught.

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:32

Dotjones · 11/05/2024 14:22

Also ( again I’m not saying the officers should have considered this ) but surely those that regularly dodge fares wouldn’t have an app set up with their card details on that they could quickly access and pay so quickly on !

Definitely not true I'm afraid, the first thing an intentional fare-dodger will do is set up the app so they can pay really quickly if they see the inspector coming.

Actually, that does make a lot of sense !

OP posts:
OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:32

oakleaffy · 11/05/2024 14:31

Real police or Transport police?
Im astonished that real police deal with fare dodging- but have seen armed police at Swindon station before - looked like quite powerful weapons, too,
presumably not after fare dodgers!

BTP

They're still real police

oakleaffy · 11/05/2024 14:33

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:32

BTP

They're still real police

I never knew that.👍

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:35

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 14:32

It doesn't matter if it's £1.20 though? It's not the cost that matters it's the fact he obviously thought he could get away with not paying the extra and therefore chose not to pay for the correct ticket. The fact he has lots of money makes zero difference. He thought he could get away with it and today he got caught.

As I have said repeatedly he didn’t think that , the train continues on a few more stops that he doesn’t usually do and he decided to stay on but it just didn’t enter his head until he got off . That’s the fact .

OP posts:
NoTouch · 11/05/2024 14:36

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:30

Are you ok ?

Yes I am great, thanks for asking, how are you?

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 14:36

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:35

As I have said repeatedly he didn’t think that , the train continues on a few more stops that he doesn’t usually do and he decided to stay on but it just didn’t enter his head until he got off . That’s the fact .

It's not a fact though? It's just what he told you and you're choosing to believe?

No one consciously makes a choice to stay on a train for extra stops and doesn't also think shit I haven't got a ticket for the next part.

SilentSilhouette · 11/05/2024 14:37

He probably could have gone to the opposite platform, taken a train back to the city centre then purchased a ticket back to that station and it would have been fine!

I've missed a stop before with the kids as one was faffing so had to get off at the next one then go back. The ticket person at the station was lovely! He even said there were taxis outside if I wanted to get back quicker!

Uk trains are so expensive compared to the rest of Europe so it's not surprising people try and dodge!

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:38

If you have a regular travel card or journey you make it's so easy to do so I don't know why people are accusing him of lying.

I have an oyster that takes you most places, but within zone, which is 99% of my travel. it's very easy to just scan at the gate like you always do and then get on a train that's heading out of zone on autopilot. Sometimes I even remember to buy the ticket but then go into autopilot and scan my bloody oyster to get in

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 11/05/2024 14:38

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:35

As I have said repeatedly he didn’t think that , the train continues on a few more stops that he doesn’t usually do and he decided to stay on but it just didn’t enter his head until he got off . That’s the fact .

He didn't follow the rules of carriage and he was fined as a result.

It is just tough I'm afraid. I don't understand why you are angry with the BTP for enforcing the rules in a consistent way.

Live and learn, he will not make the mistake again.

oakleaffy · 11/05/2024 14:38

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:32

BTP

They're still real police

I just googled- the Armed police I saw probably were British Transport Police!

I remember as a teenager kids saying the BTP weren’t true Coppers- seems they ( and I) were wrong!)

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 11/05/2024 14:41

It's the same when people don't see a speed limit change, or miss the parking restriction signs - you still get the penalty if you get caught.

He was unlucky to get caught, if it was a genuine mistake, but the fine was the right response from those enforcing the rules.

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:41

oakleaffy · 11/05/2024 14:38

I just googled- the Armed police I saw probably were British Transport Police!

I remember as a teenager kids saying the BTP weren’t true Coppers- seems they ( and I) were wrong!)

In general if they're in a station or on a train (or bus) they're BTP and they can arrest you like any other copper can

Justnavigating · 11/05/2024 14:42

ZipZapZoom · 11/05/2024 14:36

It's not a fact though? It's just what he told you and you're choosing to believe?

No one consciously makes a choice to stay on a train for extra stops and doesn't also think shit I haven't got a ticket for the next part.

Well they do , because he did .

When I get trains - I usually go within certain zones so it’s all included anyway , but I’ll still select a start and end station - I’ll regularly decide to get off at a different station than I intended , for various reasons . It doesn’t matter to me as my ticket includes all within the zones , but - before this - had I got a ticket to a station out of those zones , so not included , because of what I’m used to I probably wouldn’t think twice about doing the same

OP posts:
Trickabrick · 11/05/2024 14:42

I get why you’re annoyed on his behalf if this was genuinely a mistake and he didn’t think through the consequence of staying on the train rather than his usual routine.

I also get why the police didn’t use discretion though, they must hear every excuse under the sun and your brother’s reasoning doesn’t sound that exceptional. Just chalk it up to one of those things.

DojaPhat · 11/05/2024 14:42

I think the issue is weighing up if he suddenly 'remembered' when he saw the ticket inspectors or if it was a genuine oversight. The latter requires an inspector to afford someone with the benefit of doubt which as it happens inspectors and police officers alike most certainly exercise on an almost daily basis. The rights and wrongs of it are one thing but let's not pretend 'the rules' are applied everyone without fear or favour!.

OneTC · 11/05/2024 14:43

Discretion is the appeals process. The ticket mateys live for this moment and will always fine you

Especially on a sting day

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