How the erosion of LGBT rights effects female sex based rights.

[needatalk]

I've been reading various discussions and articles on this topic for some time and the conclusion that keeps popping up in my mind is the worry that my female rights will be as much eroded as LGBT rights in law.

I've seen a push in America especially Florida from activists and lawmakers, combining female and LGBT rights in the same grouping. In the UK, politicians are taking American policies. They are calling for diversity and equality to be dismantled in law. It's like time is going backwards in just on LGBT rights but on female sex based rights. Where less rights will exist for us females in the future to do subjects such as STEM or be Astronaut because of the stereotyping happening from suppose feminists who's concepts are the old typical stay at home leave the male to do the dangerous or go to work mentally.

My daughter is 8 years old and and I worry for her, to not able to have the right to do express herself as bisexual or lesbian because of erosion of LGBT rights. We all know homosexuality a long time ago was illegal and that can happen again for all LGBT rights. I worry that my daughter who loves space won't able to follow Rosemary Coogan become an astronaut which is something she dreams of because in the future people will say the radiation of space is too dangerous for females as they will get deformities in that area to prevent them for having babies or healthy babies. Science has disprove this but people are dismissing science now.

As much as I care and support about sex based rights, I can't forget the thought in my mind that my and my daughter's female rights are in as much danger of being taken away not by activists but by lawmakers who enforce sex based past stereotyping and us females lose equality which has been hard to fight for in the first place.

I'm so worried for the future for us females.

Maybe you need to go and have a read on here and see people arguing that trans people shouldn't be allowed to be pregnant...

There aren't any, of course, although there are discussions over transm taking testosterone whilst pregnant, to the known detriment of the developing baby. Testosterone is teratogenic, which means that it causes defects, including deformed genitals in girls and anovulation, which is a major cause of infertility.

Do you support that?

I wouldn't have said that if I haven't seen some GC posters say it and I have. There are some very nasty people who get a free pass on here again because they believe with the overall "GC view" regardless of if they're being nasty. Some think transmen shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant. Some think trans women shouldn't be allowed to breastfeed. It doesn't cross their mind that the medical assistance they're arguing against also supports biological women who are adoptive parent for example. None of it gets called out because they all agree in principal against trans people. And none of them think attacking the bodily autonomy of others will ever bite them on the bum.

How on earth do you intend to measure the effects of any government policy on women if we can't actually define what one is? How will you gather data on the effects of austerity on women?

There are no women's rights if we are not recognised as a sex class.

Perhaps if you knew more about the issues you wouldn't reduce women's concerns to public toilets.

Would that be because the "breastmilk" that transwomen produce is full of chemicals and bad for the baby?

Some do though.

Re testosterone, I believe it's a discussion between the patient and their doctor and ultimately down to the patient as it's their body whilst they are pregnant.I don't support smoking or drinking alcohol in pregnancy but it doesn't mean I think women should be made to stop smoking or drinking whilst pregnant because I don't believe in chipping away at bodily autonomy.

I am aware of the legal technicalities yes. However abortion is allowed in the U.K. and no one in the government is trying to stop that (which is what the OP is stating as fact)

Well firstly the science doesn't show that at all but even if it did, do you believe in interfering with the bodily autonomy of others or not? Should we be taking away the children of biological women who smoke in pregnancy ?

And none of them think attacking the bodily autonomy of others will ever bite them on the bum.

In the same way that many women (orignal sex based meaning) don't think that undermining the legal and social existence of Women as a sex class that excludes male people will ever bite them on the bum? Even though that bum is already getting nibbled away as we see women losing out to colonising men (original sex based meaning) in our sports, in our prizes, in our professional bodies, in our reserved physical spaces, in our equality measures and targets...

It's both hilarious and heartbreaking to see people who believe they are "feminists" wokring so hard at making what it's reasonable for women to expect from society shrink smaller and smaller just to avoid having to say No to men.

It's allowed under technical circumstances and women are at risk of prosecution should they not follow the technicalities.Vulnerable women being abused have vastly reduced access to the legal routes of abortion. It should not be taken for granted that the right to abortion is a given until it's decriminalised and more feminists should be devoting their time and platform to the issue.

Hang on a second. I never said that women fighting for sex based rights are wrong per se. I said they shouldn't be platforming people who are supported by right wing groups or parties or women who support abusive men to do it.

Domperidone is thought to be safe to give to women to increase breast milk production. Men are not designed to lactate. We have no idea about the nutritional value of chemically induced "breast milk" in men so no I do not think we should support someone who wants to "breast feed" but isn't biologically designed to do so. The needs of a baby always come before an adults want for validation.

Lampy123678 · Today 16:01

+ + No-one has said that trans people shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant. Posters have correctly stated that trans women can't get pregnant because they are of the male sex. + +

I wouldn't have said that if I haven't seen some GC posters say it and I have.

Well, none of us seem to have read that, so could you link, please?

Re testosterone, I believe it's a discussion between the patient and their doctor and ultimately down to the patient as it's their body whilst they are pregnant.

So, if a pregnant mother was taking crystal meth, you'd be fine with that? After all, it's her her choice, right? How about Thalidomide? It's currently used to treat leprosy. Any other damaging drugs, or is it only testosterone you think is fine.

Another one who hasn't read my posts before posting. I have said that people should not be cosying up to right wing groups or parties while they are fighting for sex based rights. I think they should be loudly denouncing the groups attacking women's rights while they claim to be fighting for them regardless of if they agree with you on one issue.

And yet the science doesn't show that breastmilk produced by transwomen is as good as naturally produced breast milk.

Should we be taking away the children of biological women who smoke in pregnancy ?

We don't do we, so its a null point, but we do take children away from those that take substances that are illegal or from people that are known to behave in such away as to be detrimental to the welfare of their children.

Should trans people be exempt from this?

You are literally arguing for the dismantling of women's rights.

You do not know enough about this issue to engage in a respectful debate.

You could literally just search on the boards here like I did. I'm not your maid?

We don't have evidence to compare testosterone crystal meth and the wider dangers involved. The fact you leapt to that says it all. I will say again that I think a patients healthcare should be between them and their doctor - deciding what is best for the patient while also considering medical advice. I don't think political opinions should be influencing medical advice.

Do you believe in women's total bodily autonomy or not?

Call me crazy, but I am 100% ok with the principle that bodily autonomy stops at the point you want to stick part of your body, or something it produces, into someone else's body.

Trans woman wants to take hormones to produce some sort of nipple secretion? Go for it.

Trans woman finds an adult who wants to consume said secretion? Again, go for it. Great to see two people with compatible needs find each other.

Trans woman wants to feed that secretion to a baby who cannot yet understand and consent to it? Not a default yes. For those who cannot consent, it's reasonable for the state to be involved to protect them. Like any new baby food, it needs to be safe for the child. Like any parenting activity, it must not be abusive of the child. Show those two things and sure, lets open up breastfeeding to men (in the original sex based meanng).

And let's be clear, if it's ok for trans women it is ok for all men. Because if it's only ok for trans women we would be making that decision based on the benefit to the feeder rather than the child, and that is never going to be ok.

I am not, how dare you. I'm arguing for women's rights to be strengthened. I'm saying we shouldn't be courting antichoice politicians in the pursuit of women's rights. There's plenty on here taking issue with that for some reason.

So biological women who are adoptive parents shouldn't be allowed to breastfeed then? What about women who smoke? And what's your suggestion - should these children be taken into care? How do we stop it?

Lampy123678 · Today 16:22

You could literally just search on the boards here like I did. I'm not your maid?

You've made a claim, the form here is that if you make a claim and are asked for a link, you provide a link. The respondent isn't expected to go trawling through thousands of posts.

That's not being a maid, it's providing evidence, to back up your claim.

But it doesn't show it's bad for them as you said does it? Formula also isn't as good as breast milk but is that the states business is a women formula feeds?
And testosterone isn't banned, is it? Or are you proposing it should be categorised the same as crystal meth?
Trans people should be given the best medical information available to them from their clinicians and make their own informed decisions for them and their families. The state should intervene at the same thresholds it does for non trans parents regarding the welfare of children. Do you think the threshold should be different?

@Lampy123678
Hang on a second. I never said that women fighting for sex based rights are wrong per se. I said they shouldn't be platforming people who are supported by right wing groups or parties or women who support abusive men to do it.

And you spent pages and pages making vague hints and insinuations at who you meant, what they'd done, and to what extent they were supported by the GC movement. Because if you'd come out on page 1 and said your big smoking gun against the GC movement was that some GC women vote tory, like a lot of people do, and that JK Rowling initially believed Jonny Depp was innocent, like a lot of people did, (and somehow extrapolated that to a generalised position of "supporting abusers") everyone would have just ignored your pointless nonsense.

Except the advance search function is pretty easy on here but thanks for agreeing that there are thousands of such posts! Its also form for people to address the relevant points in someone's post instead of lazily responding to ask for a link to a particular part while ignoring the rest.

I haven't argued that it should be different.
But then I am not the one supporting taking testosterone whilst pregnant, which is know to cause development issues, which is why most transmen stop taking it during pregnancy.

You can not strengthen women's rights if the category of women Includes men.

Some women do not agree with abortion, how do we decide which women have opinions that count?

"How dare you" oh my, did that sound authoritative in your head?