How the erosion of LGBT rights effects female sex based rights.

[needatalk]

I've been reading various discussions and articles on this topic for some time and the conclusion that keeps popping up in my mind is the worry that my female rights will be as much eroded as LGBT rights in law.

I've seen a push in America especially Florida from activists and lawmakers, combining female and LGBT rights in the same grouping. In the UK, politicians are taking American policies. They are calling for diversity and equality to be dismantled in law. It's like time is going backwards in just on LGBT rights but on female sex based rights. Where less rights will exist for us females in the future to do subjects such as STEM or be Astronaut because of the stereotyping happening from suppose feminists who's concepts are the old typical stay at home leave the male to do the dangerous or go to work mentally.

My daughter is 8 years old and and I worry for her, to not able to have the right to do express herself as bisexual or lesbian because of erosion of LGBT rights. We all know homosexuality a long time ago was illegal and that can happen again for all LGBT rights. I worry that my daughter who loves space won't able to follow Rosemary Coogan become an astronaut which is something she dreams of because in the future people will say the radiation of space is too dangerous for females as they will get deformities in that area to prevent them for having babies or healthy babies. Science has disprove this but people are dismissing science now.

As much as I care and support about sex based rights, I can't forget the thought in my mind that my and my daughter's female rights are in as much danger of being taken away not by activists but by lawmakers who enforce sex based past stereotyping and us females lose equality which has been hard to fight for in the first place.

I'm so worried for the future for us females.

Well that's just not true though is it? Has Mogg kept his religious opinions schtum? Miriam Cate? Do they not lobby for legislation that supports their religious beliefs? Have Tory moderates not talked about their fear the party will lurch further right?

I'm not sure why you're explaining to me the political situation of the UK as though I'm not aware of it? I'm British and I keep up with the news. People have been less safe,less healthy, less prosperous and less educated in the 13 years that the Tories have been decimating the UK with austerity. It's hit women particularly hard. Encouraging people to vote for a party that literally harms them solely because they expose GC views is dangerous to women.

I think you'll find I've asked several posters on this thread why they think differently ! I'm not getting many answers though just arguing that I'm wrong for thinking what I think and then you chipping in to basically suggest I should stop replying to people? Maybe take your own advice?

I am so confused by this post I'm not sure where (or if) to start with it.

By 'right wing parties' do you mean the extremely mainstream Conservative party? Because I hate to break it to you, but they are really not some kind of fringe extreme group, they're the current government. So some GC people supporting the Tories or voting Tory is really not very outlandish, is it? There are also both MN posters and prominent feminists who are vocal supporters of the Labour party, of you hadn't noticed. Are they all right wingers too?

The MAGA stuff goes straight over my head, it's not my circus not my country. I don't know why you think it's relevant here. Same with Trump, I don't know why you think JKR would be vocal about Trump, America isn't the world, JKR isn't American and doesn't live there.

why of all the attacks on women that these prominent GC feminists highlight it's never the ones coming from the right wing? Are you meaning in the UK? What attacks are you talking about?

if you keep ignoring the religious rights attacks on women and voting for right wing antichoice governments because of your stance on genders you endanger womens rights.

What religious right attacks and right wing anti choice governments do we have in the UK? We have a few fringe anti choice religious groups with no political power, and a government with no stated plans to restrict choice so what are you on about?

I'll reiterate my point again- TRAs are a danger both to women and to women's rights. They are endangering women. Not JKR.

No I was talking globally about the rise of right wing and far right governments and how their attacks on LGBT rights and women's rights have gone hand in hand. I was also talking about the prominence of gender critical members of parliament either also supporting antichoice policies or watering down legislation to protect women from religious zealots.

I'm surprised you don't care about women's rights in any country but your own. Does that go for their rights to not share a bathroom too?do you only care about British womens sports being single sex? I'd have thought women's rights is something we should be fighting for globally no? I'd think a country and like the US increasingly rolling back access to abortion should concern British women who don't yet have the right to an abortion enshrined in law either but don't care all you want.

Are you really suggesting there's no Tory MPs lobbying to restrict abortion access? 🫠 Are you next gonna tell me that the majority of Tories are supportive of decriminalising abortion as well?

Can you answer my question of if you think that gender critical views have more support from left liberal wing governments or not?

Except for the ones that literally are white supremacists racists though. And you chose that to respond to with "at least they're sticking up for kids".
So do you support the inclusion of them in your movement or not? Considering the amount of posters who keep insisting no one GC is refusing to oppose the support of the far right, very few on here are willing to do it themselves.

It is blatant obvious that Lampy is not from the uk and knows nothing of uk politics. White supremists is not a thing here, the closest would by English Nationalist.

Except that you keep bringing white supremacists in to it.
I am not.

I don't see anyone on here supporting white supremacists.

Or are you suggesting that people should try and control the beliefs of others which again is what your lefties and liberals are trying to do.

Moreover our mainstream ‘right wing’ - the Conservatives- sit to the left of the American Democrats politically.

Except you were literally responding to a comment about them to stick up for them. I asked you if I misread you, you didn't say no, I've asked you to clarify you do not support the inclusion of racists or white supremacists in the GC movement and you won't. Is there a reason why you're dodging the question? Especially in a thread where so many posters insist no one is avoiding calling out the support of racists or Nazis or religious fanatics it's odd that no one is happy to do it when asked.

I without a doubt reject racism and I don't think it has any place in feminism or the fight for women's equality.. Do you?

Sorry but I am and I do!
If you think that the venn diagram of people who support English Nationalism and people who believe in white supremacy isn't a circle, I don't know what on earth you think their major ideological differences are. If you're going to suggest the UK has never even a had history of people believing white supremacy I'd say it's you who knows nothing about the UK. It's a very bold statement to say that the belief of white supremacy is "not a thing here" considering the increasing threat of the far right. If someone calls them self a neonazi racial supremacists do you think that race isn't white? 😂

I without a doubt reject racism and I don't think it has any place in feminism or the fight for women's equality.. Do you?

On this we agree, but then I don't know any racists that support feminism and women's rights.
I do know of some racists that have GC views but that doesn't mean that they support feminism.

However I do know of at least one leftist party leader and several trade unions. that support GI and are therefore against women's rights.

It is also amusing that you equate right wing to white supremacy and then talk about Venn diagrams in non ironic manner.

Sigh. You appear to have no understanding of UK politics, UK culture, or GC feminism, and trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a pound shop Grace Lavery.

I'm sure you think you're making great headway here, but you're just providing lurkers with an example of the kind of bad faith whataboutery feminists get thrown at them all the time. So, well done you.

If you think that the venn diagram of people who support English Nationalism and people who believe in white supremacy isn't a circle, I don't know what on earth you think their major ideological differences are.

You know not all white people are English? English nationalists weren’t awfully keen on polish immigrants either.

Let’s have a look at the ILGA-Europe award winner as the most LBGT-friendly country - MALTA

What sort of abortion rights do their LBGT friendliness align with? zilch. An outright ban with no exceptions even if the woman’s life is in danger. That the sort of level of woman’s rights you are aligning with Lampy?

There is no "globally" about it.

Gender identity theory is a batshit idea which has come from America.

America is a country which considers itself to be light years ahead of the rest of the world, but it isn't. It is a culture founded on individual rights rather than collective responsibility. A country where the healthcare system is run for profit and the rich can have any medical interventions they can pay for whilst the poor struggle to access even basic care. A country which cannot establish basic rights for its own citizens enshrined in federal law because the individual states have too much power, meaning that in some states you can terminate a healthy pregnancy at full term whilst in others you cannot get an abortion under any circumstances at all. A country in which your access to contraception may be dictated by the religious convictions of your employer but if you have an unwanted pregnancy that's on you, where there is almost no government support to help you to raise your children, where you get no paid maternity leave.

It is absolutely no coincidence that gender identity theory developed and took hold in a country where all of the above is true. It prioritises the identity of the individual over the rights of others. It's a cash cow for the for-profit healthcare sector. And it's fundamentally anti-woman, bearing in mind that the US is a country where feminism has failed and women lack basic rights that they take for granted almost everywhere else in the developed world.

To put it bluntly, we need to build a metaphorical wall around that batshit country and leave it alone to eat itself.

And then we need to work on protecting the rights of women, children and gay people in our OWN country. And yes, trans people too, but not at the expense of everyone else.

None of the things you are saying in your post apply to the UK. We don't actually have a significant anti abortion lobby in the UK, or people practising gay conversion therapy.

The biggest threat to women and gay people in the UK right now is gender identity theory.

An outright ban with no exceptions even if the woman’s life is in danger.

WTF. 😳

And it's fundamentally anti-woman, bearing in mind that the US is a country where feminism has failed and women lack basic rights that they take for granted almost everywhere else in the developed world.

One example says it all. The Equal Rights Amendment is a Constitutional amendment which would make sex discrimination illegal across the whole country. It was introduced in 1972 and there are still a handful of states that have not yet ratified it, despite campaigns to do so. It wouldn’t become law until all states agree, and I think that has to happen within so many years anyway so it’s timed out. And when I looked it up to write this post to check I got the year right, I saw that some states that had previously ratified it then voted again to withdraw that ratification.

There was an excellent tv drama a couple of years ago called Mrs America that covered it all very well.

I think the multiple posters who have tried to steer the conversation about women's rights into bathrooms,sports and testosterone have been a fantastic example of whataboutery actually. Then there was the "I wouldn't even know who you're referring to ?!" confusion about who is cosying up to the right wing to "well actually even if there are nazi groups at someone's rallies it doesn't mean they're a nazi it just means they have things in common! If you have an issue with that you have a purity obsession🤪". Then of course the the suggestions from posters that there is no plan to restrict abortion access in the UK, that I just don't understand the UK and actually we don't really have publicly religious MPs (that was particularly funny!) and that we don't have a religious right wing lobbying to erode women's rights are a great example of the mental gymnastics some people will go through to explain why the people apparently fighting to protect women and girls in this country aren't actually doing much to raise awareness about anything endangering them unless it's posting about trans people. Oh and it doesn't matter if they use examples of criminal trans people in other countries because actually attacks on women and girls by trans people matter worldwide but otherwise infringements on the rights women and girls are actually none of our business!

Anyway, I'm sure it's just a huge coincidence that so many of the "I know what a woman is🤓" MPs are supporting yea another bill trying to chip away at access to abortion and I'm sure we'll definitely hear about it from those staunch defenders of women's rights on their massive platforms 👍🏻
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3511/stages/18470/amendments/10014840

The signal to noise ratio on all that was...yeah.

Lampy you were going to tell us how great Malta are and how LBGT+ support for women is reflected in their abortion policies…

Yes let's talk about one country that's a notable paradox - that's an excellent way to talk about the global relationship between right wing religious politics and LGBT and women's rights! It's not like it's kind of off topic since this a country where both were discriminated against and one was been granted protections instead of countries were both are being attacked recently but e don't need to talk about Hungary or Poland or Bulgaria or the US or Italy etc etc etc. It's fantastic they've improved their LGBT equality laws (disappointingly recently but still) but they need get rid of their archaic abortion laws (and ours are even older btw I'm sure you knew that)

I don't align with Malta at all and I'm not sure why you think I would? I've been quite consistent that I support legal protects and rights for women and LGBT people. The point several haven't answered here is if they would be happy with the reversed situation though.
Also -the last thing I want to do is sound like I'm defending their barbaric abortion laws but please don't read spread more misinformation. It's terrible another that they only allow it in circumstances where there is a risk to life without you pretending otherwise. It's a discredit to the people who fought for and achieved that change only last year.

For the posters who didn't understand abortion is criminalised in the UK, and also act as though the UK has never had an issue with abortions, it's just a funny coincidence that it was added to Maltas criminal code while it was British Colony.

Duh 😂 it's almost like you don't know that White Supremacy has always placed restrictions decides who's really white. The lack of any social political history on here is staggering that it would be funny if you weren't naively on forums and twitter buddying up with those sorts of people.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom but you don't even support the current access to abortion we have? I'm sure none of these people lobbying to reduce access to abortion count as an anti abortion lobby to you.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3511/stages/18470/amendments/10014840
And the 5%.of LGBT people offered conversion therapy are just making it up I suppose.

I'm getting a bit sick of hearing about the threats to women and gay people coming from a movement which is largely supported by older right wing men. Maybe if you care you would listen to what the majority of women and gay people support and what they feel is threatening them. But then you'd have to care instead of using them as a shield for your prejudice.

It's all gone a bit Tooting Popular Front here.

Yes let's talk about one country that's a notable paradox

It's not just one country though is it?

Your assertion is that countries with good records on LGBT rights also have good records on women's rights.

That might be true for LGB but I don't think it holds for trans-specific rights.

Brazil has self ID for trans people but abortion is illegal. Pakistan and India both have self ID yet still struggle with rape and honour killings. New Zealand has self ID and the highest rate of domestic violence in the developed nations.

British women have the best access to abortion anywhere in Europe and I don't think any plans to change that are going to get off the ground. Honestly I think you are just spouting American talking points from a country whose laws and customs could not be less relevant to ours.

LGBT is a meaningless label. I'd like to know how many LGB people are being pushed into conversion therapy in this day and age, or whether that 5% you are quoting is made up exclusively of T people whose families have suggested, not unreasonably, that maybe they should get some therapy instead of chopping body parts off to fix a mental health problem.

As for your claim that the gender critical movement is mostly old men, that's ludicrous. It's mostly left wing women, many of them lesbians.

Perhaps you're the one who needs to listen to what most women want, because most of them don't want men in their single sex spaces.