Do I lend him the money???

[Strawberryshortgirl]

My boyfriend of 2 years is starting up a new business and has contracts lined up to be started in the next month or so. So he should see payment by end of Q3 this year. In the meantime his savings have been used up and he’s basically ran out of money to support himself. We have both been very careful over the past year, knowing he is setting up the new business, to keep his expenses low and haven’t really done much or gone anywhere in order to save money. We don’t live together.

So now comes the hard part, he can’t afford anything at this point, can’t pay his rent or bills or child support. I have some spare savings. He wants to borrow a reasonably large amount of this until the business pays out. AIBU to hand over the cash to him for a few months? I find the entire this confusing as I’ve never lent money like this before.

So you lend him a big chunk of your savings…. And what happens next month? And what happens if one of his contacts pulls out? He can’t pay his bills can’t pay for his children…what would he do if you weren’t around? Or didn’t have savings?
This all sounds very fishy to me…. He doesn’t seem to have a business plan set up and if he can’t pay his bills he needs to get a job! Bar work, or something similar is always available and would give him extra cash. But him saying that neither a job nor benefits would pay his bills is suspicious.
I would say no… and add that your money is tied into an account where you can’t just withdraw it. Sounds mean but he needs to be financially independent not relying on you to bail him out. And he should have thought about how he was going to provide for his children….

A proper gigolo would be cheaper.

Please don't. He clearly doesn't have money management skills, already the business isn't panning out as he projected and he is refusing to get a job and instead asking you to take a huge risk. If he was working his socks off with a second job and doing everything in his power to make things work financially, then maybe you could consider formally investing in the business (with a lawyer drawing up the terms), but it sounds like you've been his backup plan all along. Sorry.

If he doesn't accept your refusal then he clearly doesn't have your best interests at heart.

I'm trying to think what his business could be, that he's spent a year working on it to the extent he's not done anything else, but it's not paying out until later this year.

Is it a physical product that he's created?

Could he sell his car to raise the necessary funds?

The business isn’t viable if he can’t pay his rent, food, bills or child support between now and September.
So he should get a job, or get a bank loan for which he will need a very convincing financial plan.

If he wants to be a business man, he can’t expect his girl friend to lend him her savings, especially without a properly drawn up legal contract. It’s unkind of him to ask and put you in this position. He’s relying on your naivety.

OP, think very carefully ……can you afford to lose your savings and how would it make you feel if his new, untested business wasn’t successful and he was too skint to pay back everybody he owes money to ? His debt to you would probably be the last debt he would honour.

Never lend money you aren’t prepared to lose.
Why is he asking you ? Does he not have family he can ask ?

You and only you are responsible for the security of your own future.
Secure your own future before investing any money you don’t need, and even then, make sure it’s not a start up. Most new businesses fail.

You aren't committed to him for the future in any way without a legal contract.
I would be committed to making my savings work for me, not for somebody else.

The fact that he is already relying on you to subsidise him shows that his plan isn’t as sound as he would like it to be.
This should be a red flag moment for you OP.

He sounds like a lazy fuckwit OP. He should have been working this whole time even if it's just to make sure his child support is covered.

What are you actually getting out of this relationship? Sitting indoors doing nothing instead of going out because he can't afford it, getting guilt tripped and now being pressured into handing over money you will never see again.

Don't do it OP. It's very rare on here that a vote is unanimous.

So now comes the hard part, he can’t afford anything at this point, can’t pay his rent or bills or child support.

So he wants you to pay all of this until Q3 when he’s hoping he’ll get money from the business?

What if he doesn’t make money then?
How long will you pay all of his bills for him?

Even if his business makes money in Q3 he still won’t be able to pay you back for a very long time as he’ll be using that money to pay his bills.

If he’s running out of money then he needs to get a PT job asap!

I don’t know why he wouldn’t have done this already or why he’s not doing it now.

IF you were to give him money you would have to see it as a gift and not a loan because these debts are rarely paid back in full.

And IF I were to lend him money, it would just be his immediate bills to tide him over until next month but I would expect him to take any job so he can afford his bills the month after.

How does he know that you have savings?
Especially such a large amount that he’s comfortable asking for?

This is a big red flag.
You don’t even live together and the amount of savings you have should not have been discussed.

OP if you're still reading, please listen to this. There are some men who see women as nothing but resources on legs. Financial, emotional, sexual, housework-al, etc.

They can seem so kind and nice, and vulnerable etc etc.

I did what you're considering when I met xh.

He could (literally!) be the man you're writing about now, 25 years later.

Absolute waste of space human and a terrible role model for our dc.

Value yourself more highly. Also if you're still tempted, at least ask someone who's known him a long time and see if he's pulled this stunt before.

Only lend him what you are prepared to lose.

If you love him and believe in him maybe a very small loan and a part of his business.

But personally I think he is a bad bet.

Do not, under any circumstances, lend him any money. There is zero chance you will get it back and it will destroy you and your relationship.

He can still get a part time job now, and that would bring in some income. He can work on the business (please tell me it’s not a hobby business) during the day and part time job evenings & weekends.

He’ll probably say he can’t work full time on the business AND do a paid job part time, but he can. Lots of people work a full time job plus a part time job. I’m one of them. Yes, it’s tiring, but it brings in much needed money. My part time job is only NMW, but it’s still more money than I’d have if I didn’t work the second job.

he should see payment by end of Q3

he should see

he should

should

It’s a resounding no from me, because “should” is not “will.” Your boyfriend has already made so many poor financial decisions I can’t even count them, and the business is most likely going to fail. When you have a good, really good business idea, and you also have responsibilities like rent and a CHILD, for God’s sake, you don’t quit your job and say, “I’m going to make a new business!” As your boyfriend learned to his detriment. Most people with successful businesses started working on them when they were still working a regular full-time job, which is why banks expect that you’ll have had income for the last year. And they didn’t quit until the new business can pay for their responsibilities.

Or if you’re SURE that your idea is so hot that it’ll take off, you would approach angel investors (NOT family, not your girlfriend - actually people who invest in businesses professionally), and guess what? If they don’t want to invest for some reason, it’s because the business is shaky and you shouldn’t be investing either.

Also, your boyfriend is running his business extremely oddly. Why would he have contracts but get no money until the end of quarter three? That leaves him open to doing work and receiving nothing which could make the business fail anyway. Most contracts ask for a certain amount up front as well as possibly certain amounts for milestones, not simply the whole amount at the end. This assumes the issue isn’t that the contracts don’t start until the end of Q3, in which case he needs to get a job, just like everyone’s been saying, and whatever his excuse is, it’s not worth throwing away your savings over.

Nothing has changed since your last thread on this when you wrote:

He has lied to me about his financial position in the past. Exaggerated his income and net worth to impress me at the beginning. Would I be crazy to loan him money?

and then you concluded, only two and a bit weeks ago:

I have read each and every one of your messages. Thank you.

Mumsnet really is a community and I have decided after laying out the facts to you, listening to your advice and take on the situation, plus going over them myself, that the information he is giving me simply does not add up. Which I suppose I knew deep down anyway. It screams of desperation to me and I honestly think he’s got himself into a mess that he can’t figure out how to get out of and is just not thinking logically.

If the topic comes up again (which I’m sure it will) I will be asking all the right questions and will offer to help him in other ways other than financial. Eg, chase the invoices and help him find invoice financing, credit cards etc. I’ll be keeping my (relatively small amount of) savings to myself.

I guess he's put the thumbscrews on you, but do try to look out for yourself.

I wouldn't do this, it will make you liable for any business debt he accumulates.

Running a small business is incredibly difficult, to be successful you need to prepare robustly and have a first class business plan. Your partner is already on his uppers, before he's even started. It has disaster written all over it, so I feel confident saying you won't get back any money you lend him. And thats just the start - supporting him in emotional and practical ways while he attempts to make a profit is going to take its toll too. Sorry.

Yep this

No, he can take a loan out or something.

He didn’t just get into this situation out of the blue. He actively chose to run down his savings to nil, rather than getting a job, probably because he was always planning to utilise you as a walking cash point if/when needed.

I might help out a boyfriend with eg a surprise vets bill for a beloved pet, but I wouldn’t facilitate them choosing to not work for a year.

Sorry, just read he can't take out a loan.

Still no. He's not in financial difficulty, he should have saved up enough money by working over the past year to put in to his business and cover his life.

It has come to a point where it’s all very urgent and he needs the money now to pay bills

Sorry but this is utter rubbish. We all know we have bills to pay, rent/mortgage responsibilities and for our children. He's had an entire YEAR of not working and seeing his savings whittle down gradually - why has he left it right to the very last minute until it's suddenly so urgent that his only option is you lending him money?

He could have taken action 6 or even 2 months ago to get a part time job once he saw his savings dwindling. He's either incredibly stupid and irresponsible with money- in which case you'd be an absolute idiot to give him your cash. OR, he's being purposefully deceitful and manipulative knowing he can emotionally blackmail you into bailing him out whilst he lounges around "working on his business". In either case you would be an utter fool to trust someone with such little grasp of financial responsibilities with the savings you have spent time building up. Absolutely noone sees their savings going down over time and is then shocked that there's nothing left unless he isnt checking his bank account and is living in blissful ignorance.

Someone who has no concept of cash flow or financial management will never, ever, make their business successful- it will fail in its first year.

The OP is falling for the sunk costs fallacy.

Not just in the financial sense - although she seems to have already subsidised the boyfriend for the last year - but more in the emotional sense.

Having "invested" two years of her life in this bloke, she seems to think that investing more time, trust and money will make everything better. This despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Not only does this guy not have a pot to piss in, but he seemingly can't even scrape together the petrol money to come over for an evening of "Netflix and chill."

It is not possible to get back the emotional energy that has already been invested (or wasted) on this guy - so don't waste another minute, or any more money, on this relationship.

If a bank won’t lend there’s a good reason and most businesses fail it would be foolish to lend in these circumstances.

No!! but if you do make sure you consult a solicitor.

So how does he propose to pay you back so?

It's a flat NO from me.

Interesting that you’ve posted before and that it includes the info about him borrowing from an ex.

Even if you two end up married, I think that you’ll end up as one of those posters supporting the whole household financially and physically while husband has his hobby business and that he’ll convince you to write off his money because you’re a couple.

If he starts making an income in q3, it doesn’t mean that he can start paying you back. The income may need to go back into the business to generate possible new clients and income.