Auriol Grey's manslaughter sentence overturned for killing cyclist. Correct decision?

[Locutus2000]

Reported in multiple outlets - BBC.

Mixed feelings - it was a complex case with no winners on any side.

Or where being a cyclist means you're never, ever at fault.

Have you any idea of the implications of taking away the liberty of a disabled person ?

What liberties does Celia Ward now have?

Nor is there proof it DID happen though! Do we convict people on what might have happened these days?

That is irrelevant to the issue of the supervision of mentally ill people.

You love your absolutist statements don't you? - Never - ever - always - all - do you ever see the greys in between?

The lack of understanding of disability on here is absolutely astounding.

There is no one ‘agreed understanding of disability’.

It’s completely subjective. Some people will feel AG should be locked up for the protection of the public, others will feel her right to freedom matters more than ladies like Celia Ward losing their life. So you can’t just accuse somebody of ‘not understanding disability’ because they disagree with you.

I’m disabled and do not expect anybody to know the ins and outs of my condition and nor should it give me carte blanche to go around being aggressive.

As a driver and where I live it's like Tour de France everyday full of Lycra passionate cyclists but also tourists on pay bikes, older people, I always give wide space in case they can lose balance, tip over in front of my car or even simply have their coat or bag get stuck on the chain where they can flip over infront of my vehicle where I can seriously injure them and even worse kill them and I honestly don't understand how this woman got away with this deliberately waving and abusing the poor woman to her death where she got run over regardless of her mental capacity.

I treat cyclists like horse riders where they can easily spook and lose balance so easily. This decision can seriously open flood gates where people can abuse people and lead them to their death. Her actions should have consequences and she should face it. I feel very sorry for the family and the driver who had to endure this.

It isn’t because the lack of supervision resulted in her death didn’t it? The natural consequence of unsafe or aggressive people being allowed to roam in public is the risk to the bystander. They’re intertwined

There absolutely should be an investigation into how AG was assessed as being okay to be rehomed independently.

I don't think AG belongs in prison but I think what happened to ward falls far short of being an unavoidable accident. The responsibly should lie with someone

My understanding is she admitted she may have made contact (not a push).

Nevertheless both prosecution and appeal judges have accepted there is no evidence of any push, despite all the armchair detectives here declaring there was a “clear push”.

The fact the case wasn’t referred back for a retrial probably says something about the judges belief in the realistic possibility of conviction.

It’s all very sad but I think the correct outcome. I did read the appeal judgement and agree with it. Though doubt someone will be along shortly to tell me how much I must hate old people to think that.

@OneTC FFS you just want all disabled people locked away in institutions?

I don't even know why people keep saying cyclists this and cyclists that.

Celia Ward was I believe, a 77 year old woman on a shopping bike, she was a retired midwife, a grandmother.

I highly doubt, and most sane people would agree, that she was being a menace on the pavements. She wasn't doing wheelies fgs, she was an elderly lady going about her day in a space that she had every right to be.

I've seen that pavement on street view at a different angle and there was space for both to pass by safely.

You sound lovely, if only all drivers were like you

There absolutely should be an investigation into how AG was assessed as being okay to be rehomed independently

Rehomed? Auriol is not a lost dog or cat!

@ControlShiftDelete Too many cyclists do not realise that pedestrians may be disabled. I have stopped walking along a canal path near me as I am partially deaf. Cyclists ride along fast and ring their bell just assuming pedestrians will jump out of their way.
This woman is partially sighted.
You can not assume that all pedestrians can move quickly, can hear you or easily see you and judge speed and distance.

No

@Welovecrumpets partially sighted people should not be locked up for the protection of the public. There is no justification for this view.
Having a cyclist come towards you on a pavement when you are partially sighted is scary.

You can not assume that all pedestrians can move quickly, can hear you or easily see you and judge speed and distance.

This.

Exactly. Where her liberty has caused another woman to lose her life, it absolutely should be questioned. She is dangerous. She should either be in prison or in a supervised setting for the protection of others.

It’s not because she’s partially sighted it’s because she’s aggressive and dangerous and caused the death of another person, then strolled off to go shopping. Isn’t that psychopathic in your view? It is in mine

No one has said that disabled or partially sighted people should be locked away.

There has to be some accountability when someone behaves so dangerously and aggressively that they caused a needless death.

And that it coincided with her change in accommodation.

It obviously wasn't a decision that did her any favours

AG was originally living in a residential home for disabled people. It’s my understanding that the home was oversubscribed and the LA reassessed her as being fit to rehouse in an assisted living flat - essentially by herself.

I don’t think this poster was advocating for all disabled people to be ‘locked away in institutions’ and the residential home didn’t operate this kind of restriction. However it did offer a degree of supervision and when AG was moved out into accommodation allowing a greater degree of independence, she was spoken to several times by police for causing a public nuisance - a fact that the LA was made aware of but did nothing. I think given the tragic circumstances that followed, there should be a review of that decision and I think that’s what this poster was advocating.

I think it seems to have gone from possible assault to manslaughter, which seems extreme.

I've had a cyclist come up to me really fast on the pavement before, I was scared so yelled out something like 'fucking hell, watch where you're going', they replied with another worse expletive but it all happened in a millisecond. I was pretty shook as I got hit badly by a cycle courier when I was a child.
I'm not saying it's exactly the same, as the one I had was really fast and clearly quite aggressive. But if I'd have yelled something out in shock, the cyclist chose consequently to go onto the road, then they were hit; I'd feel awful but I would not feel I had committed manslaughter. A cyclist is faster than a pedestrian and therefore a greater threat.
If you add in her learning disabilities and stuff, it's just too big of a leap. I'm not saying she shouldn't have been charged with something though. She clearly was far from perfect in her conduct.

I'm disabled and unsteady on my feet. I feel nervous when cyclists approach as I really hurt myself when I fall (currently recovering from shattered shoulder bones). So I move as far away as I can as they approach. I don't move into their paths, shouting and flailing around. I'm also autistic and am disgusted that some people seem to see that as a pass for intimidating people to their deaths.