Auriol Grey's manslaughter sentence overturned for killing cyclist. Correct decision?

[Locutus2000]

Reported in multiple outlets - BBC.

Mixed feelings - it was a complex case with no winners on any side.

Or maybe it's because people feel that the justice system should actually work, and that people who are imprisoned should be properly convicted in the first place ?

What's happened here is just a mess and causes additional stress and grief for everyone involved on both sides of the argument.

To me it is very likely AG will get some sort of compensation, although I don't understand the system fully. How is that going to make people feel ?

To me the conviction was always questionable from the start. They could have avoided all this mess by ensuring it was done correctly years ago.

To me there are no winners here. And the justice system just looks a mess.

Oh and they also said (words along the lines of) ‘maybe Mrs Ward wasn’t a very nice person’ 🤯🤯🤯🤯

Yeah it is a shame. But still a push.

No I’m convinced it’s got little to do with the justice system and more to do with protecting certain types of people at all costs because the posters identify with them. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I don't see the UK as being more "Bike Friendly" at all, aggression towards cyclists is very common & the law always sides with the driver.

Even when a cyclist is lit up, riding responsibly but is killed by an unlicensed, uninsured and partially sighted lorry driver, the law gives him a very lenient sentence.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/uninsured-unlicensed-lorry-driver-jailed-for-killing-josephine-gilbert-486847

3 years for wiping out a young woman's life..... out and about, able to continue his life after 2 years..... Now imagine that was YOUR daughter?

Oh FGS, why do you keep repeating that?

It's been pointed out time and time again that it was a shared space.

What?

When my youngest was four weeks old I was pushing her in her pram across a pelican crossing. The light was red for traffic and the little man was green so we were clear to cross. A cyclist decided to ignore the red light, barrelling across the crossing at serious speed and clipping my pram quite nastily. The rest of his group followed behing him, all ignoring the red traffic light applicable to them and swerving past us, not one of them stopped to check my tiny baby was OK (thankfully I just about caught the pram from falling so she was). There was absolutely no question about who was in the wrong - this was a British cycling team and one of them did yell back 'sorry!' but that's just not good enough. You can fucking bet I shouted and screamed and waved my arms at them. I'm pretty sure that in the moment I would have done more than push one of them - had any been courteous enough to stop. I am definitely not a yob or mentally unstable, I am someone who was terrified for my baby. Your comment is absolute nonsense.

I'm not saying my situation was in any way the same as the one reported but the blanket statements about 'people who hate cyclists' etc. are simply ridiculous.

I'm not in the UK and I live in an area where there's a lot of cycling - international tournaments, specialist hotels and resorts etc. Everyone here hates the cyclists - including the cyclists themselves when they're not on bikes! We've all had incidents similar to the one I've written about, there are debates in the local press all the time, there are even local FB hate groups towards cyclists and none of it is irrational or to do with mental illness, it's learned experience. None of us have any respect for cyclists due to their own behaviour. They're a disgrace. That doesn't mean I or any of the people I know think it's right or acceptable in any way to push said cyclists under cars or cause them harm in any way, but until they begin to respect other road users, they'll continue to be hated and with good reason. I don't know if it's like that in the UK or not but people don't just irrationally hate cyclists, why would they? It's learned behaviour.

And cyclists can cycle on mixed use pavements. your point is?

Britain is becoming more cycle friendly so get used to it.

Ah, the entitlement and arrogance of cyclists.

It's been pointed out time and time again that it was a shared space.

But it should not have been. Cycles belong on the road.

Not if that picture is supposed to be your evidence it isn't. I'm not sure why you think you know better than the police or courts involved, who have not established a push. I'm quite happy to accept AG did push the cyclist if I see actual evidence of it, but all I've seen so far is speculation.

That was a gif but it doesn't seem to work.

Well that is part of the problem being demonstrated so well here.

Too many people being convinced of things they have little evidence for and too many beliefs and assumptions based on their own personal prejudices.

Whereas actual proof seems to be in pretty short supply.

Yeah that is a gif but isn't working. If it would let me upload the gif I just made, I think it's quite clearly a push.

So you’re suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you here is an older lady and fits the profile of brain damage at birth along with multiple brain surgeries resulting in learning difficulties, mental health problems and partial blindness ? How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion ?

I've watched the video and I can't see a push. I can see possibility and probability, but nowhere near evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

You need to contact the police then. Everyone involved in the case, including the prosecution, have accepted there is no evidence of a push.

But if you can see differently, I’m sure they’d love to hear from you…

In your opinion. You sound just like AG

Yes I know.

You're not following so I'll clarify. I think the conviction should not have been over turned. You've jumped half cocked into a conversation you've failed to understand. Someone upthread was suggesting that drivers jumping lights was super rare and I was posting an example of that supposedly rare behaviour.

Because that's a long sentence:

I think that auriol grey was guilty of the manslaughter

Nobody can see the push (Which AG admitted to) because of the angle. It does not mean it did not happen. Celia Ward is dead beyond a reasonable doubt.

Sweary and shouting at anyone in public is nearly always completely unnecessary

Grey admitted in questioning that she did push Celia under the car and then sauntered off to go shopping but then changed her story.

What is that grainy photo supposed to show?

What do you mean ‘should she be allowed out on her own’ ? Have you any idea of the implications of taking away the liberty of a disabled person ? They would have to be declared to have a complete lack of capacity, and agency over their own lives would be effectively removed. For very good reason, this can’t be done easily. The lack of understanding of disability on here is absolutely astounding.

AG was in a residential home for disabled people. The home was over subscribed and the LA judged her to be fit for housing in an assisted living apartment. In light of the fact that this incident came on the heels of that decision, perhaps we need to examine their rationale. The mental health and learning disabilities AG had would have to be substantial for her to have a place in a residential facility in the first place. She was also partially sighted with impaired depth perception. The judge in the original case dismissed all of this as not relevant.