***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

This is very true.

The surface motivation with ‘hot’ women vrs ‘fat’, ‘old’ or ‘ugly’ women might be different-

For example- my wife has experienced as much male harassment/SA/violence as me, and she has always been extremely overweight and not conventionally attractive to men… it seems like they expect her to be grateful for ANY male attention because in their view she clearly doesn’t deserve to be admired, appreciated or valued.

Where as ‘hot’ women are like a prize to them.

But at the end of the day it’s still down to showing their ‘power’ over women.

I remember the time my teen daughter told me about a man persistently staring at her on a bus and I had to explain this is what her life would be like now. It broken my heart.

Yep. I remember taking my daughter on the train when she was about 13. She walked ahead up the platform away from me while I was fiddling with my bag. By the time I caught up to her a pedo pervert had zeroed in on her and was hanging around close to her. I walked up staring at him and he beetled off. At the shops I was forever glaring at creepy men staring at her. It starts when we are children and it never, ever ends.

I just remembered...the driving instructor who kept putting his hand on my knee. Nothing too innocuous at first thought but, by God, did I feel threatened and intimidated. It was like he was testing the water to see if I'd make a fuss. It was in a confined space alone with this guy. I was early 20's and he was about 60!

I never told anyone, but I did change driving instructors!

I don’t think anyone, man or woman should have to go through this. I’d like to think things have moved on a bit though, I remember as a teen in the 90’s it was commonplace for lads to shout from cars, having your bum pinched in a crowd and lads trying to grind up against you in clubs. I remember having to rescue my friend in a club in Greece (from English men) who pinned her to a wall and were feeling her up! Appalling behaviour.

Many many years ago one summer evening just after my sister had passed her driving test we decided to go for a spin in her new car . Being young , just for a laugh we decided to go turn the tables and beep at men and wolf whistle at them the way they did countless times to us ( and worse)

It was surprising to see their reactions a lot of them didn't like it one bit ! I only hope they thought twice about doing it themselves.

I had a senior partner in my magic circle firm earnestly assess my figure “perfect” apparently and he went on to detail why 🙄. Thought I was going to be given career advice 🙄

Yes, Y7 of senior school and DD1 commented that men stare outside the school - girls in uniform. Since then both DD's remark about men "hanging around" outside school, one on a bike seems to have a restraining order and loiters over the road near a footpath for a quick get away (mid 40s) at school kick out time. Dads in cars on pick up duty seen literally rubbernecking to keep girls in view...grim indeed. Dd2 now usually has her hood up when we walk in public, a sad shield she feels she has to wear to avoid the male gaze. The feeling of trying to melt into the walls of places while you wait for friends to stop the staring never quite leaves.

I was sexually assaulted by a woman when I was 12 or 13. I told my parents but they did nothing about it and made me feel silly. The woman was a hotel manager and she told me that the owner liked me. Horrible. Incidents since then involving men were much more frequent but more around staring, verbal comments and intimidation.

I also was a bespectacled braces wearing teen and did not really experience this sort of behaviour until my late teens - after the braces came off and I started wearing contacts. I did have my skirt lifted up in the playground but that was my female classmates. I was still traumatised by it though. As a young adult in my 80s clubbing days countless occasions being grabbed for a slow dance and having an erect penis ground up against me. That was just par for the course.

Interesting. Are you saying you haven’t been harassed and you think it’s due to men not finding you attractive?

Can I just clarify what do you mean by you haven’t experienced healthy sexual attention from men?

Does that mean you’ve experienced unhealthy sexual attention ? If so, is not that what the thread is talking about.

Or do you mean you’ve just not received attention at all?!

Sounds horrible.
I’m sorry to read all the comments who have been through assault.

It’s always so sad to hear aboit these things, the me too movement really came as a shock to me.
Even though I’m a woman myself, I just never had anything like this happen.
I’ve always been told I’m too ugly to have a boyfriend (that sadly came to be true) so I’ve has that kind of harrasment happen and had my share of crying when it comes to men, but I didn’t know quite a lot of women went through things like these.

Same.

I was washing dishes at the weekend - such a mundane task, so it every day - and quite randomly had a monetary flashback to when I was assaulted twice within a few hours when I was 15, by two men. And I couldn't get it out of my mind. I stayed to feel really upset and panicky. I managed to calm myself before anyone came into the room but the anger, shame and fright I felt surprised me as it was so long ago.

I've never told anyone IRL about it but I'm wondering if it might be helpful.

But yeah - a lifetime of micro incidents and a few big incidents. And it's both heartbreaking and oddly comforting to know I'm not alone in this.

Definitely YANBU, started at 13/14 for me when my piano teacher's son used to grope me if he ever had to let me in the house when I went for my lesson, something I've actually never told anyone.
So many instances of men saying things/shouting/whistling. From pre 16 age.
Men blocking your way so you couldn't walk past them.
Being groped in clubs in the late 90s/early 00s was just normal.
Just generally being aware of men looking when i walked past from about age 15.
My friend's older step brother, (30 ish) saying I had a "sexy voice" when I phoned the house, I was 16.
Luckily nothing "that bad" just normal but that really shouldn't be normal!
I have a 13 year old daughter now and I look at her and she's so pretty. I just dread her going through some of this stuff and still having to make sure she's keeping safe and looking out for her friends etc

I remember being with my friend and her daughters (one of them is my goddaughter). We were out walking in the Camden area and walked around a corner. This old man gave a silly stare and chuckled and cooed at my goddaughter. He wouldn’t take his eyes off her. And it was in a creepy way. Not like an aw cute kid way.

She was about 8, tall for her age so maybe passes for 10. Me and her mum were aghast.

I was with my younger cousin of a similar age (8ish) a couple of years before that Camden incident in another country where she lives and these guys at the local market were calling her their “wife” in their own language that i also understand. Disgusting.

They’d just have said they were joking if I challenged them but it was a weird “joke”. Where’s the humour in it? I wouldn’t joke an 8 year old boy was my husband. Not many women would.

Nad as someone who used to work with young people I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve seen men clearly way over 21 undressing 14 year old girls with their eyes.

I have had experiences like this many times between the ages of 15-25. However, I’m not dwelling on it 15-20 years later. I don’t treat it as “my trauma”. I don’t believe ALL men are like it. The (real) world has definitely changed now. (The internet has not).

Yes, I agree.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to try and claim this is reality for all girls and women.

I read once that something like 1 in 3 young girls experience unwanted sexual attention from a stranger when walking home in their school.

It makes me so fucking angry that this is what our girls contend with while so young,

I could’ve written your OP. It’s disgusting that it’s still kind of normalised now.

I worked in a accountants/solicitors firm about 7 years ago and the new boss was an ex city banker and used to say what he’d do “I’d love to screw eg Gonna from behind what massive knickers she has” (worse than that obvs) to his staff and in view of clients too.

I mentioned this to a family friend the other day and all she could say is it was common for bankers to talk like that.

When I was assaulted by my parents friend age 11 and avoided him aftet was I choosing how I responded? I mean it was summer and I used to live in tiny dressers and was only wearing underwear when this happened so maybe it was my fault?

Your post is highly victim blaming

Any woman should be able to wear any clothing any way they want. This does not give men a pass

This is also one reason why it’s insensitive to tell women not to use cars and to always walk or rely on public transport so they can be “green”. A lot of negative incidents occur on public transports or walking from A to B.

And I say this as a non car driver!

I remember being on an Edinburgh to Glasgow train and this guy was moving along our carriage randomly tapping women. I flagged it to the train conductor walking through and he kind of rolled his eyes sympathetically but then shrugged. Nothing is done when men display these behaviours and you’re trapped in a moving vehicle with them. It’s horrendous.

Once a man sat down next to me on an empty bus and then started sucking his fingers moving them in and out his mouth in a suggestive way. When I asked to get out he didn’t move so I had to squeeze past him and he looked thrilled. He was clearly enjoying it.

Another incident on a late night bus this man kept asking this girl to give him a kiss. It was kind of light hearted in the sense that it was more acceptable back then unfortunately. She laughed it off and kept saying no and eventually said “no I’m only 15, go ask her” pointing at me (so much for sisterhood eh)

The man’s eye lit up when he seen me and he came over and started harassing me
for a kiss. I tried to keep it light too so I said “no I’m 15 too”

I wasn’t, I was 21 but often mistaken for a teen back then. This man looked me up and down and said “no chance, not with those tits the size of those”

The mood instantly changed and I felt so ashamed.

#metoo. I think most women have experienced sexual harassment of some kind.
I'm in HR and have sacked 2 men this year alone for Sexual harassment. One was touchy feely. The other verbal. He told an older woman that he'd love to take her virginity and had lots of experience of 'opening' women. Ugh!!. This was in work.

@gabsdot45 🤮 then we wonder why they’re (some men) so bold on dating apps and social media. If this is what they can say in real life in a work setting no wonder they’re so awful in less formal settings.

It doesn't end often.

A few years ago I was in a cab on my 40th birthday! at 5pm so still light, I was sober as going direct from work to my birthday celebrations and had the cab driver probably in his late 50s or early 60s asking me if I had a boyfriend! I was 40!

And because I was doing what many women do and just being polite but trying not to engage and looking at my 'phone; he was making comments like "so is that your man you're texting?" and at one point said "stop looking at your 'phone and talk to me, I'm being friendly".

I know there's lots of MNetters who say they would have told him to fuck off, got out of the cab and reported him etc and I did consider just telling him to drop me off before my destination as I felt so uncomfortable but I had people waiting for me and wasn't sure I could get another cab easily during rush hour.

So I carried on looking at my 'phone and just barely responding then paid the full fare and got on with my evening.

But was really fucked off by being 40 and still putting up with this shit.

I had texted a male gay friend from the cab, saying I felt really uncomfortable and his response was along the lines of "aw, he's probably just lonely" and didn't 'get it' at all.

and can I just say as a woman who is a POC I’ve had men switch from being sleazy or asking me for a favour to racial insults when they’re rejected/denied so that’s another level to contend with.

I absolutely refuse to engage with homeless men begging on the streets for this reason.