***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

Yeah, we should just all shut up about it now, it was ages ago.

Agree NAMLT

Far Too Men Men however Are Like That.

To those that say this has never happened to them, that's good.

So, let me ask you this...do you ever do things to protect yourself, 'just in case'?

No.

As an example, carry your keys in your hand when walking in the evening, just in case you're attacked?

No, I’ve never done this, it hasn’t even accured to me to do something like this.
I’ve seen woman do something like this in a hollywood movie, didn’t understand what that was for / about, at the time.

Don't walk home alone at night, just in case?

No.

I’ve taken hours long walks in the middle of the night when I was a teenager and couldn’t sleep.
So, not going home sounds crazy. Where would I go if not home.

I find this thread interesting. I am not going to say oh it doesn't happen but I was a teen in the 60's . My parents brought me (and my older sisters) up to take no shit. I went to college to train as an Occupational Therapist and again at college, the expectation was that everybody was entitled to respect and self respect. While I have of course been approached in pubs and at parties, I have never been harassed, touched or abused in that way and neither were my college friends. I wonder whether in this respect, society has got worse?

It's really, really common. I've experienced many sexual assaults over the years from partners and strangers. From the age of 13 onwards. A family member actually blamed me for the incident that happened at 13 and I was called names etc regarding it. I was 13 and he was 22.
I'm surprised there are women on here who haven't experienced it.
I went to a pub/ club last year after a concert and thought how lovely it was not to be harassed and then realised that my friend and her younger sister were being harassed by men I just wasn't as I'm older now and men aren't interested (luckily). So it does happen to older women but not as often.

im really pleased to hear some women have never ever experienced any form of sexual harassment/intimidation or assault

but it’s extremely disappointing to read the victim blaming

its absolutely shameful to blame children for adults predatory behaviour

I will not shut up about it as I do not want girls and young woman to have to face this issue (and before anyone points out boys and men do too it’s not like it is for girls and woman let’s not pretend it is) once again it’s shutting us down let’s for once speak about the issues girls and woman face

There are a lot of boys and men who enjoy intimidating girls and women.

I'm in my 30s and my most recent experience of being deliberately intimidated was with a group of teenage boys (all taller than me, but I believe still children).

They surrounded me as I was walking somewhere and started walking with me while asking me to be their friend, give them my vape, where was I going etc and touching my shoulder/arm. I laughed like my heart wasn't pounding and just kept walking as I was headed somewhere with a lot of footfall, at which point they predictably fell back.

I felt like this on the way home on the tube last night.

Scrunched up between two spreading men on the tube, no hand rest for me even though I sat down first, knees together, elbows drawn in.

I was a 70s child and started working in the NHS in the late 90s.

Sexual harassment and even sexual assault was common. It was seen as banter or just messing about or you were warned by older female staff members to just not be alone with certain male nurses or Drs.

In my career, I've seen one male nurse be imprisoned for sexually assaulting colleagues - after years of getting away with it, he started at a new hospital where he was reported. Another male nurse imprisoned for sexually abusing a teenager for years. And a Consultant Dr go to prison for supplying class A drugs among other things including CSAM and he had been sexually exploiting junior staff and at least one patient for years but there wasn't enough evidence to convict him for that.

And they are the ones that were charged, imprisoned and struck off. There are a few others who were committing criminal sexual offences that were not reported and others who were sexually harassing staff and it wasn't reported or it was and they were suspended for a bit then got a slap on the wrist and just moved to another ward or team.

It's always happened but the ethos and culture in my experience has changed dramatically over the last 10 years or so and it is much easier to report and be listened to. In some cases.

So in that respect, things have got better but I'm sure many female staff are still enduring that. As the fairly recent information about sexual harassment and assault in surgery has demonstrated.

https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2812#:~:text=Almost%2090%25%20of%20female%20surgeons,the%20problem%20facing%20the%20profession.

I think in some ways it probably has got worse. Creepy weird men have always been around, but in most communities there were one or two and usually people were aware of who they were. I personally think porn and the internet now almost trains men to think about sexual needs first, then work. It's their "treat" for the mind which they prefer over reading and it becomes something they can't get out of their head. The lazy hit of dopamine for them wins every time. Even in my 40's I can see when men glaze over and mentally undress me or other women. It's no wonder to me the physical aspect gets worse if this is what is on their minds so frequently. Porn has normalised a lot of men thinking that every man does XYZ (basically whatever they want a green light to do).

Agree with you ... and I think a downside of the internet is these pervs can find each other and validate each other.

I'm sorry that it's been like that for you, but it's not every woman's experience

Oh really? Where does this woman live, alone on the moon?

I also find it hard to believe that some women have not experienced this because it is so universal - to me as well as to every other woman I have talked to. Maybe some areas & communities escape the worst of it?

For me it started when I was 11, and looked it - at a party organised through the school, me wearing a party dress my mother had made. 1st time I was groped by some older boys there. More incidents than I can count since then.

Most men - even (or especially?) decent considerate ones - have absolutely no idea how ubiquitous this is. I remember meeting my now DH one evening and he reported that he had been propositioned in the street by a woman on his way there. He was shaking with upset/disgust. Of course I was sympathetic but couldn't help thinking that he was having just a taster - to him a one off aberration - of what I & other women are routinely subjected to and worse (as DH wasn't physically intimidated the way women are).

I also find it hard to believe that some women have not experienced this because it is so universal

Why would you not believe it? Don’t get me wrong, it’s horrendous that so many women have experienced it but I don’t think it’s helpful to say it’s universal when it clearly isn’t.

Even if it's not your personal experience, it's all around you. You know other women for whom it's the truth, I guarantee it.

And, in my experience, most women who say it never happened to them, do discover, when they dig down into it, that actually, they HAVE experienced at least the lesser (for want of a better word) examples of this behaviour - they just didnt register it because it's so endemic and normalised.

I don't think most men appreciate that most women have been sexually assaulted or intimidated. Every friend I've spoken to has. Creepy touching as a child by older men, dating men as teenagers and bot realising the illega or creepy nature of it (15yo girl and 20yo boy was common in secondary school), doctors surgeries, as a teen, in a bar, on public transport, by male "friends" who had unpleasant motivations.

They think it doesn't happen to women they know.

It took me 10 years to realised I'd been sexully assaulted. I assumed it was a drunken fumble but actually, it wasn't.

Yep, irl I know literally zero women who would make this claim. It's exceptionally unusual.

I am not disbelieving the women who say it hasn't happened to them, and I am referring specifically to my own experience in finding it universal. Literally every woman I have spoken to about it has at least one story, or more usually several, to tell.

The historical harassment has coloured my whole outlook on the world. I don't trust men automatically, they have to earn it; and they can blame the harassers for that mistrust, not me. I will not say it has ruined my life; not at all, I have a good life and I love and trust my male relatives and friends. But when I am out & about my defences are permanently up now.

Yep. Some women normalise lower end sexual assault or forget about it. It'd be an incredibly rare woman who's never been groped, catcalled, had a pervy comment aimed at her, had a creepy man ogle, leer and invade her space - Some women don't consider that abuse or harassment.

I do know one woman whose parents always drove her around who lived in a quiet village and later was glued to her husband on most outings, so she only had one or two upsetting experiences. She's the outlier though.

that's me..rare woman.... In my teens I lived in London just off the King's Road, later went off to college and my husband was away for big chunks of time (merchant navy) and I kind of resent "oh you have you just don't know it"

It's great nobody has said that.

You are, indeed, exceptionally rare and incredibly lucky. All stats, studies and discussions prove that.

Wish I knew any other women who could say the same. Genuinely envious of your good fortune.

So, believe women, unless it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Sorry for anyone who has suffered sexual assault, but it really isin’t all women.

I have no idea what you’re getting out of trying to deny that some women haven’t been assaulted.

And if this is the narrative you want to keep, then that would have to mean that massive number of boys and men are the one’s doing these things, then what the hell would women be doing getting in relationships with men and having kids.
Why would women trust them? And bring a next generation into this world, be it to suffer or commiting these assaults.

It's great nobody said that. All stats, studies and discussions make it irrefutably clear that the vast majority of women experience sexual assault, harassment or abuse.

Very envious of your very rare good fortune.

So, believe women, unless it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Yep, that's what it's starting to sound like on here and to be honest I think that's going to cause more harm than good.

If you want people to believe you've been harassed then that also means believing people when they say they haven't, even if you feel that doesn't help your case.