***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

The final stage of my recruitment process for my first graduate job in 2000 was "team drinks so the team can see if you're a good fit". This involved copious amounts of alcohol and, on my return from the ladies', the department manager (a married man twice my age) pinning me up against a wall and telling me "what a great fit" we'd be. I nervously wriggled away. When I started the job, a colleague slightly older than me used to come and sit opposite me when I was on the phone to clients, and would silently mouth "I want to f* you".

It would never have occurred to me to complain about this. It happened to all the younger women.

I'd like to say it wouldn't happen today, but I've recently witnessed similar behaviour from a young Andrew Tate fan in my office. Fortunately after several complaints, he's been suspended and presumably won't be returning. At least the climate has changed on inappropriate behaviour.

Totally agree with you. I was watching it and really felt for the victims but at the same time I was a little bit bemused because this is what we have to put up with all the time.

I'm very uncomfortable about a documentary like that where people haven't taken it to court but are talking about it publicly. I don't think he is innocent of any of this but it did make me think what if he was?

You don’t have any friends and stay at home? And avoid busy places and social interactions? This is very unusual.

Me neither. I don’t know anyone who has continually been targeted in this way, and certainly not from primary.

I have
t watched the documentary but this is something the experiences I had from 11 to mid adult hood have really started to play on my mind recently and they bother me because they were all “normal” and I was / am the average girl / woman. Stand outs apart from the accepted cat calls

• slapped on backside by passing drivers while cycling aged 11
• - groped between legs by passing gang aged 14
• Flashed at walking home alone
• chased and just escaped by luckily running to a house that opened door
• numerous boob comments by strangers and acquaintances

recently I get upset thinking about because it was just normal and I can’t go back and do what I’d do now, call police, report, kick them in the balls. Fuck them, all of them.

Sadly, I don't think most men care or have empathy for us. I mean, we're lucky they even see us as human at all.
I have empathy for women

Apologies for that sloppily written post! When I say “accepted cat calls” I mean that that was so widely accepted that I am putting it lower on the scale for me, in terms of the traumatic memories, not that it is acceptable!

Same as you OP I had the hand up the skirt at school multiple times (then got called frigid for smacking them away) - bra straps pinged with rulers. Followed on foot and in the car at various times. Leered at, boobs grabbed, smacked on the arse by a customer at work... and despite all of that I know that so many experience so much worse. No one should experience this, but yes for many women it's been an ongoing thing, the hypervigilance never leaves.

I have been horrified to see a man watching my then 13 year old son in a predatory way at a festival (son looks much older than he is but still) ...he clocked me watching him and backed off. It's all so fucking depressing.

It’s not just in school environments either! My work includes a fair amount of networking - and the majority of ladies on the networking scene all agree that most events most of us will have an unwelcome approach of some sort. Sometimes it’s a polite approach, sometimes it’s a man touching a bum or breast without warning, sometimes they take the hint quickly, sometimes they need a loud and embarrassing rejection.

One of the most memorable I had was on my first day back from maternity leave and the guy just kept grabbing my bum so I kept moving away to a different part of the room. Eventually I got loud about pushing him away and said (so that at least the half dozen people we were standing with could hear) “What’s the matter with you? You know I’ve just had a baby, will you please leave me alone!” His reply was that just having had a baby was part of the attraction (WTF?!). He kept turning up wherever I was for the rest of the week. He pretends it never happened now. (No alcohol involved).

People ask why there’s more men than women in my industry, this is why.

As an unattractive woman, my experience is slightly different - in my younger days I was used to being jeered at and insulted by men, usually strangers, when I was minding my own business, doing my best to appear inconspicuous. It was as if the men had to 'prove themselves' by loudly demonstrating to their mates that I was far below the standard they would set themselves; or, they were using me to banter with one another: 'that's your girlfriend there' etc.

Thankfully I am middle-aged and invisible now to that type of man.

Like a few others on here, this is not my experience at all @PurplePink45

I've slways had a lot of attention from boys (when younger) and men but it hasn't been the negative experiences described on here.

Yeah, it was jarring. Like they had never considered men could be like this…..to other men.

I'm genuinely amazed there are women on here saying they and their friends have never experienced it. I must have been sexually assaulted over 20 times between the age of 15 and 25. And not just in places like nightclubs, it happened to me on a train, on a plane, at work etc. If you include sexual harassment (e.g. a lewd comment in the street) then it must be over 100 times.

I do think some women seem to attract it more unfortunately. It's not about being the most beautiful, there seems to be some things (like hourglass figures or blonde hair) that are a magnet for these dickheads. I used to have to cross the road if I ever saw a group of blokes walking towards me. Now I'm in my late thirties none of them even give me a second look, thank god.

This post exemplifes beautifully what women have to do to avoid sexual harassment.

Men don't 'get it because they don't experience it (generally). My lovely dh only thinks the rare bad men do things like that not normal run of the mill he sees daily. I've tried to educate him. What can't be seen, can't be identified and can't be dealt with.

I'm 62 I expected this when I was young.
But sixty bloody two
Last year I had to report a much younger colleague for exposing himself to me repeatedly. What the hell is that all about?
He said he thought I'd find it funny. I didn't and he got a final warning. I felt so embarrassed at the meeting. I look like a 62 year old. I'm not a glamorous granny. I wondered if my boss thought I was deluded but luckily this man admitted it.
I'm just so sick of this. I've put up with this disgusting behaviour all my life.

I’m not saying it’s as black and white as that. I meant that the things here in this thread about misogyny and the treatment of women have impacted your life hugely- even if you didn’t choose those things; that’s what we are all saying. No one here has chosen any of the things we are simply saying how much of an impact on our lives it has had in various ways. When I read your first post I got the impression you were saying that none of these things had affected your life - what I garnered from your post actually was that they most definitely have; even if you don’t realise it or haven’t actively chosen some routes your life has taken. That’s exactly what systemic repression or systemic sexism or misogyny or whatever you want to call is, is. I wasn’t picking a fight etc It just lept out at me when I read your post essentially saying you didn’t feel included in these elements being described here when actually you definitely are! x

@YahdahYahdayYoo you articulated that so much better than me- yes @YankSplaining this is what I meant! Apologies if I offended you it wasn’t at all my intention. x

I was the plain, bespectacled girl at high school. Didn't save me from the boys groping me in the corridors between classes. It's not about attraction, it's about power and intimidation. Men and boys get their nasty thrills from that. I'm glad it didn't happen to you.

One day we were in the gym and my husband made a comment about he couldn't understand why there were women going there just to walk on the treadmill rather than running/other workouts. I replied 'because its safer'. Think it took a few mins for the meaning to really sink in.

What can't be seen, can't be identified and can't be dealt with.

Exactly. Men don't do this in front of other men so they never see it. A few years ago I was walking with my partner and I crossed the road before he did. In the 30 seconds before he crossed over a bloke drove past me and shouted some gross comment out the window. My partner was absolutely flabbergasted and I had to say "yep, totally normal I'm afraid". Obviously this bloke would never have done that if my partner was stood next to me.

I was thinking that it hasn’t happened to me either. I’ve worked in a female dominated industry my whole career and been with my husband since 18 though so that has probably protected me as an adult.
Then I remembered getting groped from behind in the city centre in a crowded market, I never even saw who did it. I was 11 and felt incredibly ashamed.
A friend and I were flashed at in a park when we were about 13. A man was wanking himself off in a car park when our school group was in a parked coach opposite. The open secret that our English teacher was a threat and you should never let yourself be alone with him.
Those, and the fact that two girls were raped and murdered in our village, the first when I was late primary age. Our freedom was very curtailed because of it. I remember policewomen coming to our guides group to give us self-defence advice.
Probably because of this, as an adult I wouldn’t dream of going out even dog walking on footpaths alone. I always keep to populated streets or busy parks in daylight. My dh goes where he likes, when he likes without ever thinking twice.

You’re not wrong.

I went to a single sex school so I didn’t have any issues there…. Until an early 20s lab tech tried it on when I was 16.

Thinking back, I remember having my boobs grabbed on the street at around 17/18. A couple of guys put their hand up my skirt when I was stood at a bar. I threw a drink over the second one as I became a bit more feisty then.

Then in my law career - as a trainee, one partner slapped me on the arse when I was bent over. I got another “while you’re down there” comment when I was looking in a low cupboard. Another partner grabbed my hand and put it on his crotch when he was drunk. And these are meant to be intelligent, educated people.

Oh and at 18 my own mother told me to go and flirt with the bin men so they’d take away an extra bag of rubbish.

It didn’t affect me negatively though tbh. I just thought they were all complete fucking idiots. By my mid 20s though I stopped putting up with ANY of that shit and was subsequently labelled “scary”. For having boundaries and a sense of justice.

Fun being female, innit.

It is terrible I agree, but aren't males more at risk from male violence statically? Bringing up young men or young women both have worries and dangers

I agree OP. I have had so many experiences that made me feel uncomfortable and threatened from probably about the age of 12 onwards. Possibly younger. I thought, like many girls growing up in the seventies and eighties, that it was just 'part of life'. Nothing in me shouted that it was wrong. In fact, I believed that my reaction was what was 'wrong' and that I wasn't normal. Because nobody told me anything different.

@Allfur This is specifically about sexual violence and intimidation. That isn't even a blip on most men's radars.