***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

And, yes, for me, the harassment has tailed off now that I'm middle aged.

Instead, it's my young daughter that gets it. Aged 10, a man giving her too much attention in Pizza Hut. A man alone, trying to engage with my child who innocently responded. The man that fled sharpish when he realised that we'd spotted him and my DP got up to ask him what he was doing.

The teen boy at her school giving her unwanted attention whenever she wore a skirt to school. Crawling around under her desk. Touching her on multiple occasions even though she'd made it very clear to him that she didn't want to be touched. When we complained, we discovered this kid had been doing it to multiple girls for several years but there were excuses for his behaviour. They basically gaslighted her into accepting that she needed to be more understanding.

My response was...he touches her again in any way, we will report it to the police. She won't talk about what this boy does any more because they've made her feel like she's making a fuss about nothing.

She doesn't wear skirts to school any more...

I've had very little sexual harassment from men as an adult, and nothing like the assaults at school, but I'm another who also never had healthy sexual interest from any.

I don't think you can expect "men" whatever that means, to understand this issue.

Most of them are not involved in that behaviour and the ones who are don't care.

Feeling Intimidated, like feeling offended, is something YOU control, not something which is done to you.

You are using provocative language to describe what most of us (men and women) go through as we grow up. All the teenage fumbling, pressure to do this or that. When I was 15, a lot of girls in my class, me included, would roll us our uniform skirts, unbutton our shirts, loosen our ties and try to get as much attention as possible from the boys. Sitting next to the ones we fancied on the playing field benches, or winding up the ones we didn't by making sure they saw us. Would you say that we were "sexually intimidating" the "men"?

Had a quick Google. Think the poll was London based. Didn't have time to do further digging. https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/89317/html/#:~:text=%5B3%5D%20It%20found%20that%2064,may%20amount%20to%20sexual%20assault).

Sorry if I've done that link wrong. But I think if you have never been a victim of any unwanted sexual attention as a woman, then you're quite lucky. How awful to say that!

Men do this because they're bullies, and bullies are very careful about who they bully and when. I imagine some women just give off some kind of vibe that they're not worth the risk? Which might be why not everyone experiences it.

Surveys like this are junk.

I could be feel sexually harassed by a man standing next to me at a bus stop, not because he did anything, I just find men uncomfortable to be around.

That's why those surveys are no use.

Me too. I’m reading these stories and thankfully don’t share any of those experiences, and neither have my friends. I run and walk at night, I have close male friends, I work with men and have never felt in a position of vulnerability.

Genuinely, no, I've never done those things.

I have had a couple of dodgy experiences with men but it hasn't changed how I live my life.

I was on a day out with my partner and my then 16 year old daughter.

It was a nice little village, not too busy but a few adults, couples and families milling about.

My daughter was standing a few feet away from us amd so not obviously with us. Two men approached her asking her to take a photo of them on her phone.

Of course that's a completely innocuous and commonplace occurrence - asking a stranger to take a photo of you but there were so many other people they could have asked. Why choose the apparently lone teen girl..?

Of course, this wasn't a sexual assault and so doesn't fit into any specific margarine of such but even so...

@fieldsofbutterflies I don't do any of those things. I frequently walk home alone at night. I wouldn't invite a Facebook market place seller into the house though.

So, bottom line, I got up and started shouting "There's a man flashing his cock on the train!" down the phone to my husband as we had been chatting about what to do about dinner. The flasher was pretending to scratch himself through a hole in his trousers conveniently next to his pathetic penis, which he was flicking backwards and forwards. There's more to it, but that's the crux of it.

I created such an enormous fuss and people buzzing round that he basically ran away at the next station.

I would definitely not recommend that or any other form of engagement though. It was quite a busy train, and I reacted without thinking. Always follow your intuition, if I'd been on my own I most likely wouldn't have done that, I'd have ran away and tried to get help.

I think the blunt reality in most cases is that these women are just not attractive. I believe that the drivers behind "healthy" and "unhealthy" sexual attention are pretty much the same.

@strangewomenlyinginponds That must have felt so empowering for you. Well done. And sorry you had that experience.

Yet we are called unreasonable when we say we don't what men who think they are women in our toilets, in our safe spaces, heading up rape organisations or self help groups, in rape crisis centres, in prisons. In fact ANYWHERE that are for biological women and girls. Why is it reframed around a man's needs?

Yep and London Transport says over a third of female passengers have been sexually assaulted.

It's absolutely commonplace. Any woman who's not experienced it is incredibly fortunate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/at-least-33-of-women-suffer-sexual-offences-while-commuting-btp-finds

Honestly I was just scared, then angry then fed up and so over it :( certainly better than when I was17 though and a man was masturbating at me on a bus and I fled and told nobody :(

@strangewomenlyinginponds Maybe we need female only carriages as they have in Japan? We obviously shouldn't have to and it's a double edged sword in Japan - pleased they've introduced it but sad they had to.

I agree OP - I've not watched the Spacey story yet but I also recognise your description from many points over my lifetime. It still has power that many men have never experienced this at all, when most women will have (and often more than once) by the time they reach 20.

I thought the same when I watched it

horrific and not right. When the poor lad was talking about it in his work place I just kept thinking “your lucky that’s where it stopped”

mad really isn’t it.

Neither would I - male or female though! I also wouldn't go to some random woman's house alone either which lots of people on here would probably do.

My work requires me to be in/out of peoples homes and I always tell someone where I'm going and when to expect me back:m.

You are very lucky.

@Zodfa

Men do this because they're bullies, and bullies are very careful about who they bully and when. I imagine some women just give off some kind of vibe that they're not worth the risk? Which might be why not everyone experiences it.

I think you have a point.

I’m mid-forties and I suffered direct harassment a lot as a young girl and teenager (it also started when I was so young the men were clearly paedophiles, the first time was a man in a park in Paris making sexual motions and mouthing stuff at me when I was still in primary, I was eleven and looked it). Between 12-18 I was groped numerous times, sexually assaulted at work, followed home by a customer, ogled and harassed by more than one teacher, asked some really weird stuff by my aunt’s middle-aged neighbour (a father of four girls), asked out in my school uniform by a grown-up bus driver, groped and aggressively questioned about my sex life by many a random man and cat-called constantly.

However, by the time I was in my twenties I was properly ‘hot’ (sexist term but relevant to male perception) and while I was still catcalled from moving cars
and stared at, I no longer got the weirdo approaches. Was asked out a few times by people who shouldn’t have asked but not overtly harassed at work or pestered in bars. My friends said I scared most men, but my theory is these sort of dickheads are also somewhat afraid of good-looking adult women and the prospect of consequences /mockery/rejection doesn’t appeal. Causing confusion or intimidation does.

I disagree, I tho I you are unusual- and lucky. I was 11 when a boy at school and gave me a ‘nipple cripple’.
I still remember the shame.

It has very little to do with your age or how attractive you are. It's about power

I'm 61 now and have experienced this at different times, in different forms in every decade. First time in 1980s with a driving instructor most recent with a colleague of my DH, highly respectable etc who visiting out house. He stood far too close rubbing against me and being generally 'handsy' (his wife was there). Also recently witnessed a gay guy doing similar to female guest at hen doo. Unfortunately the consencous among the other guests (younger that I) was that it couldn't be harmful because he's not sexually attracted to women. Talked to my gay son about it who explained it is not uncommon among certain gay men for whom it is a power trip. They do it to either sex and has nothing to do with sexual attraction. It should not be tolerated.

I used to think that things has improved for women but more and more I see it is just surface deep.

I don't feel like I've had many instances of this but it could just be like others have said where certain things are normalised. Such as going out drinking (not something I do often now) and men dancing on you, was dancing with my sister and a man grabbed my hand and tried to lead me away. A friend from work was actually fireman lifted by a man who tried to carry her off!
Where I live I take the dog out at night and never feel I can't go.
I was in London a month or so ago and walking back to the hotel with my husband. There were lots of people and we walked past a man at the bus stop. He then started walking behind us. I asked my husband when we were in the hotel about it and he hadn't even noticed the man. I had immediately tensed, put my hand on my bag and pulled it to the front of me and was looking at his shadow to judge where he was as he felt really close. This was all done in a few seconds and was pretty much an unconscious reaction.