***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

Too many instances to list I’d be here all day 🙄

Enjoying the invisibility of being late 40s.

I had a man tell me if I don't want to be sexually assaulted I should just go out at a different time. I was out at 8am FFS

YANBU.
Started in junior school onwards, I’ve only had unwanted attention, one scary event in high school but managed to get him off, the odd grope, being called frigid because I didn’t want to engage. One time my parents were getting the roof repaired and I had the usual, their faces fell when I walked up our drive way though. Instant karma. The regret was written all over their faces.

DD gets unwanted attention, stares and she’s shortly turning 8. She’s aware of it but doesn’t know why, she already hates/wary of most men. (We think this stems from childhood tests/hospital/male consultants).

Only men have ever commented on her looks, strange, random men. DH has received comments saying ‘she doesn’t get her looks from you’. Of course neither of us say anything because she’s with us.

Only one time I reacted is when the guy stroked her cheek after commenting and she recoiled.

There was a video circulating on my socials once where men were subjected to this behaviour from women. Honestly makes you feel like giving them the some of the same!

I'm not denying your experience or assuming this is going to he the same for you, sooty but your comment reminded of a conversation I once had with some friends.

A couple of them said they'd never experienced anything untoward from any men ever. The rest of us were a bit surprised having had experiences of one sort or another from prepuberty onwards.

Following further discussion, it transpired that what they actually meant was they'd never been physically sexually assaulted or raped but had experienced a lot of the 'low level' stuff that the rest of us had.

They were shocked to realise they hadn't even considered that to be a problem because it was so 'normal' and unremarkable that it just hadn't really registered as anything with them. It was all filed under stuff that just happens.

Like I say, I'm not assuming that that applies to you just that it was quite eye opening to learn that for some women it's just so much part of normal expectations of male behaviour that they haven't even recognised it for what it was.

And, tbh, I was raped when I was 20. Because I knew him, I didn't realise that's what it was. I just thought it was 'sex I hadn't wanted to have' even though I made it very clear at the time that I didn't want it. I had a bit of a light bulb moment 20 years later.

My partner and I have stopped watching films/TV programmes where VAWG esp sexual violence features. It feels like it's reduced what we can watch to almost nothing! It's just so prevalent and normalised that it's viewed by many as 'entertainment'.

And that doesn't even cover narratives where men are 'just' crossing women's boundaries under the guise of 'romantic gestures'.

It’s not just in school environments either! My work includes a fair amount of networking - and the majority of ladies on the networking scene all agree that most events most of us will have an unwelcome approach of some sort

There was a man on the board of the charity that I used to work in, and when there was a board meeting all the women would talk amongst ourselves about wearing a high neck / baggy top so he couldn't stare at our tits. Not really quite sure now why we didn't do something about it, but I guess it's that thing about feeling we wouldn't be believed or that it's something trivial we just have to put up with.

I remembered another, when I was away with a group of women (dh not with me) I politely explained to a very persistent guy (rubbing up against me etc and not desisting even though I’d moved away repeatedly) that I wasn’t interested as I was married (thought that would be easier for him to take than just plain not interested). He turned very aggressive and was shouting at me. We had to leave. Unfortunately the walk back to town was through some very quiet streets and he and his friends followed us. We had to make a run for it. It was quite terrifying.
amazingly he saw me in the city the next day I saw him pointing and talking aggressively to his friends and I’m sure he was going to come and harass me again but I think he wasn’t certain it was me (thankfully I was wearing my hair differently and had sunglasses on) so he decided against it.

Remember that hidden filming of an attractive woman walking along the street in think New York. The hassle she got. Could relate.

Also the weirdness of dealing with men when you are like that can’t describe the desire yet underlaid with anger. Urgh don’t miss it.

We’ve all experienced some sort of harassment from men. My first experience was at 14, in school uniform, being wolf whistled, and cat called by builders.

Through the years we get told things like “you’d be much prettier if you smiled, love”, and men expect us to feel grateful. A lot of us have been called a “slag” for turning someone down at some point or another.

Makes me sick that it’s almost a universal experience for all women. If you’ve not experienced it at all, you’ve been INCREDIBLY lucky.

Yes, my sexual Assault began when i was 8. It has come through in all types of ways but every way left me feeling disgusting and like i didn't want to be a girl with bits things that are obviously just so irresistible -_- I'm over that now but I still have a hatred for .. a majority of the people in this world.

I also remember being 10 and surrounded by a group of 10-13 year old boys trying to burn my legs with cigarettes and i remember just hoping that Burns were the worse thing they would do to me as i knew anything sexual would be way worse.. Managed to run home as someone scared them off by shouting out the window

also walking home from school at 11 and having builders shouting to me to suck them off or flash them .... Nice

There's been a lot on SM about the bear vs man thing over recent days.

I was completely unaware of it's existence when my partner asked me which I'd prefer to meet in the woods. I answered bear without hesitation.

Obviously, it's a flawed question in many ways but I've since seen a lot of discussion about it on SM and its clear from the majority of men's responses that they've just missed the point entirely and simply don't get it

Wow. This has made me think...
I was quite unattractive and chubby at school.
However I got preyed on by an older teenager. Who pretended he liked me. I had zero self esteem. He used to say things like 'well, you would do it if you liked me'.
He proceeded to try and have sex with me. I was 14.
And yes, other instances since then unfortunately, and talking to my best friend about it. Similar with her too (and she was really attractive and popular growing up), so many girls and women are just not fucking safe from any of these dickheads. Edited to add, we were both away on holiday on a quiet beach when a guy came to lie down near us, we were like, ok, that's a bit odd, but whatever. After a few minutes he started to play with himself. We got up and left immediately after the shock had worn off. Dirty bastard. How dare they!!

Yes OP.

Only this week I was sat on a bus, there was a guy across from me probably in his 40's, manspreading and holding his dick.

I don't know if he was doing it particularly to intimidate me, or just because he felt entitled to do it, or just because he couldn't leave his dick alone for the short bus ride home.

It was grim and I got off the bus early because I felt so uncomfortable and anxious about it.

A lot of men don't understand how often this happens to women.

I drive past our local high school about 4:15 every afternoon, the time where there are smaller numbers of children leaving after clubs etc. the amount of men driving towards me that I see on a daily basis ogling these very young girls is absolutely shocking. My own DD is 21 and at Uni, she likes to run but gets absolutely sick of being cat called everywhere she goes, she is too scared to go somewhere more remote. It is and always has been a problem and it's not ok. I don't know of any woman who hasn't experienced some sort of SH. I've experienced loads from a very young age and still in my 50s but lessened now.

@GreyCarpet I said bear too and my reasoning was, i feel a lot less frightened at being mauled by a bear and dying hopefully pretty quickly than the possibilities of what that man COULD do. Torture, Rape .. Id rather be mauled but have a chance to escape then escape after enduring all that crap

If I wrote the list of male harassment I've experienced you'd assume I was exaggerating. Still happening in my 50s, though men know older women will stand up to them and do it less often, they still do it.

The one thing that lessened it appreciably was driving myself everywhere instead of public transport. Because I take a train twice week now it's started up again. A guy exposed himself a couple weeks ago pretending it was an accident. It didn't go well for him.

It's absolutely commonplace. I'm very observant of men too, almost hyper aware, half the young women wouldn't notice creepy sleazers unless he slapped her phone out of her hand.

Anyway, cities plus public transport are the magic ingredients, it seems. Oh for a bottle of pepper spray.

@strangewomenlyinginponds I'm intrigued what happened to the guy on the train when you say it didn't go well for him - did you say something?

I wondered if I should have confronted the guy on the bus I was on (see my post above) but I was too nervous to, and I'm in my 30's so not super young, but I was still scared. I didn't know what to do really so just got off the bus.

I’m genuinely amazed that there are women who exist who haven’t suffered harassment and unwanted attention from men. I’ve had flashers, been grabbed and threatened in the street and of course years of the tiresome catcalling in the street.

I was so sad the other day when my daughter said she always gets a friend to go to the car wash with her to avoid being “nonced” as she put it. It’s beyond enraging that a young woman can’t do something as mundane as visit a car wash without attracting unwanted male attention.

To those that say this has never happened to them, that's good.

So, let me ask you this...do you ever do things to protect yourself, 'just in case'?

As an example, carry your keys in your hand when walking in the evening, just in case you're attacked?

Don't walk home alone at night, just in case?

My DP bought something off marketplace and the man he was buying from invited him in this house. My DP didn't think twice about entering that man's home. Whereas, my default reaction is that I would never enter a strange man's home...just in case.

It's things like this that are not even on most men's radar. That constant hyper awareness to potential threats from men...

@PurplePink45 I often do the key thing, even in well lit places.

I realised the other day I actually also have a really bright torch on my keyring, and that it would probably be more effective to shine that in someone's eyes, rather than try to stab them with a key.

But the fact that I had that thought process on a well-lit main street at about 10pm, is concerning, isn't it? (And I have never actually been raped - so I can't imagine what it's like for people who have experienced that).

Tbh I have not experienced this, and I am nearly 40. But then, I haven't experienced healthy sexual attention from men either. I've met quite a few women in a similar situation, but women being unattractive to this level is still a big taboo, so the topic is discussed only on some niche platforms.
This is obviously not to say that it is not happening, just wanted to add a different perspective.

except we are meant to have evolved from being wild animals, else why have laws.

We have laws because many of us ARE still like wild animals. If we all defaulted to treating each other with dignity and respect we wouldn’t need laws.

I was subjected to domestic abuse throughout my marriage, but I don't have experience of the everyday intimidation described here. These experiences are indeed horrible but I don't think they're universal.

Same here. I have 4 sisters and we are close enough and none of us went through any of this.
Sorry you went through that op but this is not the norm for many, many people.

Tbh no, I don't do anything you mention, and I don't really have issues walking alone at night - quite regularly do if I work late in the office.