***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

[PurplePink45]

Just watching the documentary on the Kevin Spacey allegations.

Watching a man talking about how scared and intimidated he felt, how he felt so uncomfortable being around him and wondered what he did to deserve this unwanted attention.

I had empathy for the man but I wish all of the men watching would understand how often that happens to women and not just once in a lifetime, but multiple times from a very young age (preteen).

I want to say this is our norm and it bloody well shouldn't be!

For me it was:
Age 12, 2 boys in my class at school touching my breasts and putting their hands up my skirt.

Age 15 A boy being pushing about wanting to kiss me even though I said no.

Age 16 A man at work in his 60s trying to cop a feel/touching me inappropriately and making me feel intimidated.

Age 18 Being rescued by my male friend as a boy tried to persuade the very drunk me to go further than I wanted to and not taking no for an answer.or picking up the "no" signals like moving their hand off your breasts.

Feeling intimidated multiple times by men hooting me and wolf whistling/inappropriate comments from men when walking the streets.

And many, many other acts of male sexual intimidation since then.

Yup. The 'dead eyes' they mention. Watching the guys saying "there's no way this guy is rubbing one out..." yeah, it's inexplicable and unexpected, always. At least they explain they don't punch him in the face and it's not a reaction even men have. The whole idea women don't react properly is clear because the men do the same. Freeze.

11yo - Walking home from secondary school for the first time by myself (obviously wearing school uniform) a van with 3 men followed me shouting “get your rat out”.

Teenager - received multiple ‘dick pics’ on MSN and MySpace from boys in my school. Always asked “are you still a Virgin?” Cars and vans beeping at me and shouting stuff at me whilst walking the street.

18yo - First time in a club, slapped on the arse by a much older man. And he got aggressive when I challenged him.

19yo - Sexually assaulted.

All throughout my 20’s this sort of stuff continued.

I’m in my 30’s now and still experience it. It’s relentless.

Every woman I know have experienced this type of behaviour and abuse from men. But it’s funny how most people say “oh my lovely DH and DS would never do such a thing”. Wake up, they would. And probably have.

My partner was stood at a urinal in a pub a few months ago. He came out visibly shaken because a man had walked past him and drawn his fingers down my partner's arm and across his back as he did so.

He said he just froze and had no idea whether to react or how to respond.

His next comment was that he supposed he now how a small insight in what it could feel like to be a woman.

I said I don't go around scared of men. I don't avoid walking in the dark or police my clothing because I know, from personal experience of being raped in bed wearing fluffy BHS teddy bear pjs, that you are raped because you've encountered a rapist not because of where you are or what you are doing.

But I said I am also always aware of men around me, who they are with, where they are looking, and their general demeanour.

He said he had no idea he'd feel that vulnerable. 59 years of blissful ignorance he'd lived in. A lot of girls don't get out of their first decade before it starts

Every woman I know have experienced this type of behaviour and abuse from men. But it’s funny how most people say “oh my lovely DH and DS would never do such a thing”. Wake up, they would. And probably have.

I often think that too.

I was standing outside a pub with my friend about 10 years ago. We could hear that we were being addressed by a man behind us making suggestive comments.

It was the husband of one of our other friends! We'd only met him a couple of times amd he clearly hadn't recognised us from behind, in the dark with his beer goggles on.

Most of these men are someone's trusted partner or lovely dad. And they are definitely all someone's son!

I said exactly this when I was watching it OP. This is just life for women. When they were talking about him running up against them all I could think was 'welcome to my every day experience on the tube'.

Even now, in my mid 50s, it's something I have to think about. Recently I had to wait for DS doing sports training for an hour, and I had to pass the time. I considered sitting in a local pub, but realised it was the sort of place where if I sat alone, some random bloke would probably come and talk to me, and would be hard to get rid of. So I sat in my car instead.

Tbh, this is the sort of adjustment I refuse to make.

I'm nearly 50. And it does still happen but not as often. I was recently approached by a lad in the pub who was 27. I know this because he told me. He approached to ask if I had a light. And then told me I had great tits. Bloody furious I was!

But if I want to go and sit in a pub on my own I will do. Tbh, I find men approach less if you're in the pub in recent years. I think it's because they see you as being quite ballsy if you are in a pub on your own and don't want to incur your wrath!

And, at my age, I'm more than happy to tell them what I think of them.

But then I'm also quite happy to just have a chat with anyone, male or female, who strikes up a (respectful) conversation.

Agree, OP.

I really don't think men get why we are so wary of them.

Every woman has at least one story to tell.

I think so many women have experienced it more than once that it averages out to more than once per woman. Probably by the same men over and over again.

I believe you though and i know my DP would never be one of those men

I also know I've been groped in clubs, kissed by a man in a position of trust when I was underage and I was sexually assaulted when drunk at 14 by a man in his 20s. I put it down as a drunk fumble and friends joked about it going further so I don't like to think about it. I also had a load of men target me and one was wanking off asking questions about an innocent service I was offering when I was younger.

No less than 3 friends have had an inappropriate breast examination and one felt an erection at 8 years old from a teacher. My mum and her friend were raped.

All of us are "nice" women and girls. Not "slags" or "rough". I expect a lot of us are targeted on the correct assumption we will never report it or wont be believed of its not serious enough. One of these situations was reported and got a log number. I didn't expect any more. What does that say?

It started when I was 11. A boy of the same age wanted me to "suck his willy". I was really young for my age and my family had just moved house and I moved schools. I don't think I have ever shared this with anyone.

Then I was inappropriately touched / assaulted by someone close to me as a teen. Again, never told anyone,totally internalised.

Loads of wolf whistles, unwanted groping whilst under age or barely over 18.

Also had men in clubs make fun of my looks and appearance.

Now I am in my 40s and overweight. I wear my appearance like a cloak of invisibility and it feels good.

So, yep, all stats, discussions and evidence prove that sexual abuse is incredibly common for women and girls and that only a very lucky minority escape that, of course absolutely nobody has denied those lucky few exist, and fortunately even those few wouldn't dream of pretending it wasn’t true.

What we do about it though - honestly there's no solution beyond women evolving to become as dangerous and predatory as men.

Meanwhile we'll all keep doing everything we do to try to avoid predatory men, and hope for an awakening among the decent men, and support our fellow women trying to escape abuse and harassment where we can, and let them vent where we cannot.

You get to 40 and men prefer to try to scare you, in my experience. Power is what it is all about, always. Just this afternoon I was out on a dog walk and a twat in his 20's came tearing up the rocky off road path in his shitty white van, dust everywhere, at about 60mph straight at me and the dog. Managed to dodge him and grab dog who was panicking and he had the audacity to call out "you alright?" with a giant grin. He thought it was hilarious. The silly thing is the more they do this kind of thing the tinier I imagine their penises to be; I get the same immediate reaction mentally to farty cars. I don't know who they think they are impressing, but it's not girls or women!

Surprising and fairly unusual but not denying it exists at all, I don’t know anyone who has had this experience in real life but I’ve read a few threads on here with women who have said similar eg. Not one single like or matches on dating apps or anyone hitting on them or approaching them socially ever.

Slightly of topic but that must’ve been difficult with the kids.

I’m childfree so far because I get attention and dates and relationships but I really want a great father for my future kids and I don’t believe I’ve found that yet . My biological clock is ticking and I get tempted to just go and pro create with anyone tbh lol but I’ve made peace with the fact I couldn’t put a child through not having a father as I didn’t and it really affected me. Nor do I like the idea of raising kids on my own and that lack of support but I know many women do it well.( And yes I know some women with “ present fathers” don’t get much support either!)

Years ago men were believed over women , people had no sympathy if a woman was raped unless it was by a stranger , women who had no male relatives to protect them because a lot of these pervs are cowards and don't want a beating, and don't forget there were no cameras or forensics like there are now . I personally believe these physical assaults are planned and these men knew they could get away with it .

I can honestly say this stuff doesn’t cross my mind. Carrying your keys in your hand ‘just in case’?

I’m one of the ones who hasn’t really ever had any problems with men though, so I understand if you have that you would be more fearful.

Obviously I use common sense — I wouldn’t get into a car with a strange man or anything — but I think nothing of walking home alone at night or collecting a piece of furniture etc. I’ve had no reason to.

On the subject of men not understanding: About 25 years ago, a journalist from the Daily Mail (I think, not sure) transformed himself into a woman to see what it was like, in terms of harassment. I think his name was Gareth or Gavin. Anyway, with a lot of help, he apparently made a passable female. The result was that he could not believe how much unwanted attention he got and how uncomfortable it made him, wearing a skirt and heels as he was. He said it was such an eye-opener and he'd never dreamed it was that bad and that scary for women. Food for thought. They just don't get it, it's true.

11 for me too. Quite a lot of harassment at 14 in public. And then got worse from there, but I do think the worst was when I left uni and was out on the world in my early twenties. I had no idea there would be so many older married men propositioning me. That was completely absent until I left uni.

He might have seen it happen, but I think men just don't realise how scary it is. Some don't even realise how much weaker we are than them. My ex didn't seem to realise the latter.

No wolf-whistling? No random bum-pinch? Once, I was carrying two drinks back to our table in a pub and a man put his two hands squarely on my bum. I whipped around but didn't know who had done it. Or when a teen, I would be waiting for my mum to pick me up, and I'd get catcalled by men who went by in their cars. If you've never experienced any unwanted attention at all, then you are exceedingly lucky!

So not having experienced it is only because you've been around very few men, basically. At least, comparatively speaking. That's depressing too!!

Hmm seems slightly victim blamey to say these things happen in clubs etc. When I was a teen from age 13 ish onwards the worst incidents happened in these places :

outside my own house - he was sitting in a van wanking

Walking along in broad daylight in a French town

waiting at a bus stop in broad daylight

sitting in a park at lunchtime eating a sandwich

at my job.

@NoisyDenimShaker, no never.

I can’t say I’ve every really felt intimidated by men tbh although that said I do have safety in mind because of the risk.

When I was younger and asked an a night out the very first thing I thought was how will I get home? Will I be on my own? (thus ruling out the night bus and probably taxis). A men wouldn’t of bothered with all that obviously.

Age 11 at Butlins. A man grab my breast as I walked past. Was really scary.

Attempted rape age 18, walking home at night alone. Apparently my skirt and heels were a problem. People victim blame all the time.

Walked past a man wanking coming the other direction in a church.

None were my 'fault' all very unlucky but comments around clothing, being alone, used to excuse disgusting perverted men. We have a problem in society and until people stop excusing men then it won't improve.

To those who have DSs. How have you/their dad taught them to treat their female peers? Genuinely curious

I find it really hard to believe women who say they have no experience of this. I have experienced it so much I can't remember or list it all, but I have had

• men folllowing me
• unwanted touching, including on public transport
• men revealing themselves
• wanking in front of me (on a train, and on a path when I was out for a walk)
• catcalling
• I have been date raped twice

To be honest, it has stopped in my 40s and being married with children, but before that it was pretty much constant, and never invited.