To think most women on here hate men

[Tanyahawkes]

Sorry for the rant but I’m noticing a pattern on mn, any post involving a man and a disagreement results in multiple calls of he’s a narcissist, he’s abusing, he’s controlling, leave the bastard!

I’ll admit that a list of posts do involve behaviour that is not nice from dh and dp. So many posts also can be interpreted in many ways too, I just feel like a large number of women jump to the worst conclusion first about a strangers partner, having only one side of a story told in a short version.

for anyone misunderstanding me, if a post says the partner is hurting physically, calling names, cheating, putting the op down, then yes I agree, ltb (so long as the post is true) it’s when a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist etc

You are more than welcome 😃

Just to follow up, you have given a prime example of my point, you read that my partners ex with held sec as a form of control, your brain automatically translated that to “ women don’t do that. He must have been a sex pest”

then you read things into my statement about my 2 different ex’s and rather than ask was it one person, you assumed it was, and reading an undertone that if I say my partner and I have both reacted badly and had blazing rows, no doubt you saw “toxic relationship. Abuse”

people interpret other people’s posts, don’t nicely ask for more clarity, just presume and make out the bloke is a monster, maybe he is, maybe he isnt

Yep. I do! I'm married to a good un and have a good grown up son and a few good male friends, but they agree with me that men are awful, nasty pigs on the whole

I’ve been trying to find your other comment, thankyou for the male perspective, if you haven’t got that vibe on here then I’m glad you haven’t. I was feeling (still am a little) like this site is a “leave your testicles at the door, they are not welcome here!” Kind of place

A comedian who I follow on instagram said something which I think is pretty chilling in its accuracy about the whole Roman Empire thing that men apparently think about every day or however often it is they supposedly think about it. She said her "Roman Empire" was Sarah Everard. This was in response to a purportedly glib and funny post she'd put up about would you rather find yourself alone in the woods with a bear or a strange man and so so many of her followers said bear, and then some poster (I can only assume they were male) said that that was stupid all the women were saying bear, because obviously bears are really dangerous and may well kill you. And that's when she said she realised Sarah Everard was her Roman Empire.

I think OP if you have some impression that every woman on MN hates men, it's because we're tired and fed up of being abused by them and/or scared of them. And I say that as someone who doesn't hate the men in my life by any means, I'm lucky enough to have some wonderful men in my life but I can see it.

Most women hate men's shit behaviour and specifically on this site feel they can comment on appalling cruelty they have experienced quite safely.

In real life handmaidens and cheerleaders are quick to leap in and tell them to be nicer, kinder and "not all men" them.

So you'll probably notice more posts by desperately unhappy women who feel they have no other outlet for their misery on this site.

I think that is the issue though; assuming all women must want to be paired up like we're about to be herded onto an Ark. I have had my fair share of relationships, some very long term, some short. I can honestly say they weren't all bad but a lot of them needed a lot of work. I think as women we have put up with so much from men it is refreshing to see the tide turning and women standing up and saying "we are not unpaid therapists". It's men's turn to do the work, pay for proper help and recognise love isn't a woman who just has to put up with their bad behaviour. The less women doing the pick me dance over knob heads the better. It will help progress for everyone.

I have male friends, I am not a misandrist by any means. I meet nice guys in the woods and we chat about our dogs, some polite men in cars. Unfortunately though, I also meet a lot of men tailgating, shouting obscenities, gesticulating in cars. As I posted on the Bear/Man in the wood thread I also see men lurking in the woods on walks once a week and have to change course because I feel fear. I don't know why these men do these things but I know women don't do them nearly so often if ever. I actually have never been tailgated by a woman or seen a female lurker. So why? Why do men do this? Because no one tells them it's not normal/thoughtful behaviour and we expect better. If you don't ask and teach they don't know and act selfishly. That's my take on it. The more women who feel empowered to tell their partner/DH/DS etc that their behaviour needs to be of a good standard the better. How can it be a bad thing to be a better human, whatever your sex? Women aim for it and so should men.

Sex isn't "withheld", that would imply that the asker was entitled to it and therefore the person not agreeing to the sex was "withholding" it

But sex isn't a right

And men who complain that women withhold sex are normally trying to imply that women are using it in a disagreement to try to get their own way I.e. "she wanted me to do this and I wouldn't so she withheld sex until I agreed". But quite frankly for a lot of women there's nothing that's a turn on about a man you are fighting with/disagreeing with so why would they have sex at that particular time

So yeah men who complain that their ex's withhold sex are a red flag. Because the tern withholding implies its the man's (in this case) right which is being withheld. That's pretty rapey language tbh.

@strangewomenlyinginponds "on this site feel they can comment on appalling cruelty they have experienced quite safely"

This is an excellent point and really chilling to read it, actually.

I think most women on here care about their sisters and recognise we live in a very unequal society where women are much more likely to be taken advantage of in relationships. Hating the patriarchy doesn't mean we hate men.

What I see is a site full of women who have bravely shared the most terrible stories of their abuse, sexual and physical, at the hands of men. Who rape them in their sleep. Who abused them as children and caused lasting psychological damage. Who accost them in public and terrify them out of their wits. One of whom kicked the living shit out of a random woman in the swimming pool for no reason she could see, other than that she was the faster swimmer.

That you can look at this site and see a bunch of man-hating harridans, OP, whilst I look at it and see the above, speaks volumes about the way in which you and I view women.

It's a support site geared mainly at a female demographic. It's largely women doing the supporting of other women who post here in desperation, the victims of terrible domestic abuse, and helping them through - and out on the other side of - that situation.

Men are, strange though it may seem to you, not constantly the centre and the sun of human experience.

I’ve been wondering what sparked the memes about bears and men. I do get the point of it though, you know a bear will kill you, a man on the other hand you have no idea about (my take it that, might be different to yours of course)

and yes I also understand for women who have had very bad experiences with a man or even in some cases all, or at least a lot. I fully understand hating men if you have no good experiences.
I’m also fully in agreement “don’t make excuses for bad men/bad behaviour “ you can’t put a flower in an arsehole and call it a vase.

i just don’t agree that all situations are black and white abuse, on the basis of one post, however most on here are! I’ll agree with most of you on here that 99.9% of posts are about abuse of one form or another

Neither are women @SerafinasGoose

I'm sure men have ample access to sites, including the misogynistic cesspools of some of the major SM outlets, which cater fully and as patriarchally as ever to centring their considerably privileged interests.

The clue here is in the name. Mumsnet.

The point of the bear versus man scenario was that you can hide from a bear, avoid it. It's not actively looking to hunt and kill you and there are measures you can take that generally work to keep it away. They're predictable in their behaviours.

Whereas men aren't, and you don't know if the man will be a predatory rapist and murderer, and since men are responsible for 95+% of all violent crime it's not great odds he'll be a safe bet.

I'd pick the man, but I completely understand why so many women chose the bear.

As I’ve stated in all of my replies, abuse is awful, I do not argue with anyone on that (unless they say abuse is good, but nobody said that)

however this is MUMS net, yes mostly aimed at women, as only women can be mums, and yes it’s amazing that there is this website where women can get support, in all aspects. But that doesn’t mean all men are bad, it’s the same mentality as if for instance somebody posted saying “I’ve been robbed, the person was a black/european/asian male …..” if any of the comments were then racist based on a bad experience with somebody of that race, people would be in uproar, “you can’t say that. Yes robber was …., but you can’t tar every ….. person with the same brush” not the same but my point is that it is comparable, not to tar everyone with the same brush because of bad experiences with xyz

i hope im making sense, this is not a the world revolves around men they can’t do any wrong, and it seems that’s the way it’s being seen

This with bells on.

Ahh yes very valid points, I had no clue what all of that was about. Now I do, so thankyou for that.

100% men are responsible for a way higher percentage of violent crimes than women.

honestly I just meant and still do, not every failing of a man is abuse, probably such a high percentage is, just not all

But that doesn’t mean all men are bad

NAMALT is a straw man. I don't ever remember seeing anyone say they were. Which begs the question of what is the point of it?

Obviously not all men are bad...but I don't really think I can be arsed to sift through them to find the good ones. If I was single again, I wouldn't bother.

Women on here can be vicious in how they talk to other women, I’ve seen some rude comments, some downright uncalled for comments, calling each other stupid etc

Most women's OH is a male and that is a fact
Reading many of the posts here makes me wonder if MN attracts and at times you get thread after thread of misandry comments.

What people forget is that both men and women can be decent but there is always a minority in both sexes that are awful

That tv show, Man O Man - I bet you if it was Woman O Man there would have been blood on the streets

This show

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+o+man&rlz=1CAXCFT_enGB1105&oq=man+o+man&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTINCAEQLhjHARjRAxiABDIKCAIQLhjUAhiABDIKCAMQLhjUAhiABDIKCAQQLhjUAhiABDIGCAUQRRg8MgYIBhBFGDwyBggHEEUYPNIBCDM1MDFqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:73161309,vid:JAw06JrTSAI,st:0

Tbh at 40 I think if my relationship doesn’t work out I’ll be saying the same, coz there are some nasty (as in all senses) men out there, and even if you find a decent one there is no promise he doesn’t come with crazy family or an actual crazy ex, and I don’t mean “my ex is crazy” “erm no she’s justified, you either made her that way or you are an arse and when she called you out, you called her crazy”

Literally nobody says all men are bad.

Men are responsible for 95+% of all violent crime. Not all men are rapists but 100 percent of rapists are men.

It would be more useful for you to consider your own biases than keep lecturing women, and telling them to ignore relevant life experiences and their own intuition so they don't offend the manosphere, as well as generally tone policing them.

Given that all women have had experiences of fear, violence and sexual abuse by men, whether just comments or actual assault, many from childhood onwards, and given that every single woman changes her behaviours when travelling, in public and online to try to remain safe from men, the question is not why are most women inclined to assume the worst of men, the question is how most of us still manage to love men, live with them and remain open to hope that they'll do the right thing.