Page 24 | To think most women on here hate men

Tanyahawkes · 2024-05-07T17:45:21+00:00

Sorry for the rant but I’m noticing a pattern on mn, any post involving a man and a disagreement results in multiple calls of he’s a narcissist, he’s abusing, he’s controlling, leave the bastard! I’ll admit that a list of posts do involve behaviour that is not nice from dh and dp. So many posts also can be interpreted in many ways too, I just feel like a large number of women jump to the worst conclusion first about a strangers partner, having only one side of a story told in a short version. for anyone misunderstanding me, if a post says the partner is hurting physically, calling names, cheating, putting the op down, then yes I agree, ltb (so long as the post is true) it’s when a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist etc

earther · 09/05/2024 18:27

@PorpoiseWithPurpose
You have been picking at posters the best half of the day.
And mostly every thread you post on your the same stop trying to pick arguments.
Everone is entitled to an opinion not just you.
If your having a bad day take a break dont take it out on the rest of the world.
Stop being childish.

taleasoldashoney · 09/05/2024 18:28

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:16

Ahh yes I’ve found that function. Thankyou.

I can see how it looks, honestly when I posted the thread I had been reading so many threads over days where I actually was feeling so greatful my relationship is good, seeing a few where I was seeing that maybe it wasn’t cut and dried abuse, seeing how badly women talk about each other and to each other sometimes. And then also seeing what I perceive as sexism towards the whole male demographic instead of only saying bad things about bad people. My aim, if you will was the hope that if a discussion could possibly make people reflect on the way they talk about and to each other, because to me it’s no better for a woman to say nasty things about men because they say worse about women, and I’ve seen in real life people be swayed by other people’s opinions on their partner and leave, I was thinking how awful if majority or even a large portion of advice on a thread lead to a woman leaving a partner because she had been convinced he’s abusive, and it turns out he wasn’t, of course if a man is abusive and his partner leaves him because of advice then it’s the right outcome. I’ve just seen some very naive women in real life who act on other people’s advice when they really needed more balanced advice, etc. now maybe the thought process I should have tbh is actually if a non abusive man is left by a woman who listened to wrong advice, then maybe he had a lucky escape from the wrong partner.

when I say sexist I don’t mean recognising patterns of abuse, it’s if the advice is saying it’s a pattern of abuse, and it is maybe the person advising that’s having a sort of emotional flinch (this is obviously not a real term and I can’t think how else to say it atm, emotional maybe the wrong word entirely, but I mean what I explained earlier about if someone thinks the worst in a situation because of experiences, it being like a flinch)
this wouldn’t be something malicious, or on purpose to get it wrong in most if not all cases, but it can be harmful, and I just wanted to maybe incite a little reflection into if advice can be harmful, kind of like if someone asks for medical advice on here and then someone recounts a bad medical time for themselves when that thing turned out to be (insert scary bad health situation here) and the op works themselves into panic and full blown anxiety, when really they needed a doctor. And obviously I know this isn’t quite the same

excuse my long winded way of saying things, please ask me to elaborate if anything is unclear

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Again if you want to encourage thoughtfulness or incite a conversation starting from a postion of "most of you are in the wrong" is only going to lead to defensiveness because you haven't left anybody anywhere else to go

Especially if you are actually addressing the small proportion of the forum who have been through some fairly bad trauma. Starting with a heavy handed "you are wrong because I say so" isn't exactly going to incite reflection of thoughtfulness

And honestly, most women, even those in violent abusive relationships, do not leave their partner because someone on the internet said so.

And if someone did randomly leave a relationship because an anonymous poster told them too, and their relationship wasn't abusive, then it's highly likely they were unhappy in their relationship anyway, as people in happy relationships don't make their relationship sound abusive online and leave because a stranger told them too. In that case it would be more likely they wanted to leave and needed validation. And seeing as anyone can leave a relationship for any reason, they don't need to be abused, then there really isn't an issue.

Thing is, in your worse case senario, a person is told their relationships is abusive when it isn't and leaves its sad, but relationships end. In the other worse case senario where women don't feel comfortable to tell an abused women she is being abused, she might be killed.

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:36

5128gap · 09/05/2024 18:26

Do you in all seriousness believe that a woman happily married to a decent man who decides to vent on MN about a minor irritation is going to suddenly up sticks and leave her home, life, uproot her children because some randoms on MN say he sounds abusive? On a thread where typically the majority of posters would have given moderate balanced advice (which we have now agreed is in fact the reality on here)?
Do you think other women are really so suggestible? Or that the 'man haters' have such mystical powers of persuasion? Because if they do, do you not think they'd be better using them to persuade men to stop abusing, assaulting and killing women, rather than sit on MN persuading women to get divorces?

I honestly mean this when I say I’ve honestly met so many different kinds of people and yes some really are naive, honestly I wish some women (all) had the superpower that would be to stop abuse, I’ve said I don’t think anyone maliciously tries to advise in a way that may not be the best advice. I mean I’ve seen some naive women posting threads where they have been called out massively for repeatedly posting about a partner or even more than one partner (I could be wrong about any posts actually being about more than one bloke) and not taking advice, or taking advice to leave them getting back with him and then posting a new thread about his behaviour. Don’t get me wrong, many women are sucked back into shit with their partners, or even end up in a cycle of more than one bad partner, it’s what happens, and that’s not on the woman for how she’s treated at all, so I will admit I’ve realised before I’ve finished my reply that actually saying she’s naive is wrong of me, not sure what word to use atm tbh

OP posts:

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 18:39

@PamPamPamPam Possibly as my career is busy and stressful whereas in your job you seem to have loads of free time to post on MN 😁

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:44

taleasoldashoney · 09/05/2024 18:28

Again if you want to encourage thoughtfulness or incite a conversation starting from a postion of "most of you are in the wrong" is only going to lead to defensiveness because you haven't left anybody anywhere else to go

Especially if you are actually addressing the small proportion of the forum who have been through some fairly bad trauma. Starting with a heavy handed "you are wrong because I say so" isn't exactly going to incite reflection of thoughtfulness

And honestly, most women, even those in violent abusive relationships, do not leave their partner because someone on the internet said so.

And if someone did randomly leave a relationship because an anonymous poster told them too, and their relationship wasn't abusive, then it's highly likely they were unhappy in their relationship anyway, as people in happy relationships don't make their relationship sound abusive online and leave because a stranger told them too. In that case it would be more likely they wanted to leave and needed validation. And seeing as anyone can leave a relationship for any reason, they don't need to be abused, then there really isn't an issue.

Thing is, in your worse case senario, a person is told their relationships is abusive when it isn't and leaves its sad, but relationships end. In the other worse case senario where women don't feel comfortable to tell an abused women she is being abused, she might be killed.

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Some major food for thought in this, Thankyou. This is exactly the right kind of discussion about all of this, as I say actually a man who is left wrongly would be better off, so long as he wasn’t accused wrongly in real life, police reports etc.

and yes your last sentence is so right.

I still feel bad for anybody who’s been misrepresented in a thread, either on purpose, or because the thread was created at a time of hurt and upset and the man or woman was made to look abusive, especially if there are children involved, children deserve the best possible life, whether that is with 2 parents who love each other and work at the relationship, or with parents who are better off apart

OP posts:

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:45

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 18:39

@PamPamPamPam Possibly as my career is busy and stressful whereas in your job you seem to have loads of free time to post on MN 😁

I love that there is a little lightheartedness in amongst all of this 🫶

OP posts:

PorpoiseWithPurpose · 09/05/2024 18:48

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:17

Again you want an argument

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Either way, it’s pleasing that you admit to being mistaken/wrong and that you misrepresented/didn’t bother to read your cited threads. Overall, this has been
a very weak attempt to prove an even weaker ‘argument’.

You’ve provided not a shred of evidence to back up any of your exaggerated claims or statements.

Therefore, we can credibly conclude the answer to your question:

“To think most women on here hate men?”

Is…. drumroll….. no, they don’t.

Thanks OP. It’s been fun!

5128gap · 09/05/2024 18:50

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:36

I honestly mean this when I say I’ve honestly met so many different kinds of people and yes some really are naive, honestly I wish some women (all) had the superpower that would be to stop abuse, I’ve said I don’t think anyone maliciously tries to advise in a way that may not be the best advice. I mean I’ve seen some naive women posting threads where they have been called out massively for repeatedly posting about a partner or even more than one partner (I could be wrong about any posts actually being about more than one bloke) and not taking advice, or taking advice to leave them getting back with him and then posting a new thread about his behaviour. Don’t get me wrong, many women are sucked back into shit with their partners, or even end up in a cycle of more than one bad partner, it’s what happens, and that’s not on the woman for how she’s treated at all, so I will admit I’ve realised before I’ve finished my reply that actually saying she’s naive is wrong of me, not sure what word to use atm tbh

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But a woman going back to an abusive partner, or with a pattern of relationships where she is abused then failing to take advice to leave, is the exact opposite to the situation you're frightened of, which is women being wrongly advised by MN and acting on advice and leaving happy marriages to good men. Which, I'll stick my neck out here, and bet my house, has never happened. What could happen though, is that if a woman is in an abusive relationship and people tell her it's her fault, or it's nothing, so she should stay, is that she could be persuaded to stay in misery and danger. Because it's much easier to persuade someone to maintain the status quo than to make a life changing move.
Do you agree that's the greater risk?

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 18:50

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 18:39

@PamPamPamPam Possibly as my career is busy and stressful whereas in your job you seem to have loads of free time to post on MN 😁

😂

Firstly you are assuming that I'm in the UK, secondly that I work a standard 9-5, and thirdly that I have the sort of job where I cannot organise my own time.

As it so happens I was working on a particularly challenging funding brief today and in between meetings with senior leaders, conducting cost analyses and evaluating impact pathways I took breaks on Mumsnet. Not bad for a woman whose mum was forced to leave school at 12 years old because her dad decided she didn't need education eh?

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 18:58

PorpoiseWithPurpose · 09/05/2024 18:48

Either way, it’s pleasing that you admit to being mistaken/wrong and that you misrepresented/didn’t bother to read your cited threads. Overall, this has been
a very weak attempt to prove an even weaker ‘argument’.

You’ve provided not a shred of evidence to back up any of your exaggerated claims or statements.

Therefore, we can credibly conclude the answer to your question:

“To think most women on here hate men?”

Is…. drumroll….. no, they don’t.

Thanks OP. It’s been fun!

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Let me just say, you have not been helpful at all, I don’t think you bother to try and see another point of view, I’ve had about 2 people who didn’t agree with me that actually bothered to listen and see past me maybe explaining things badly (you know being human and all) they didn’t need to agree with me, they put their point across in a more constructive manner and managed to actually have a conversation with me and not an argument, they were helpful and wise and we ended up having a back and forward conversation rather than what you are doing, you are still antagonising, argumentative and clearly you just need a win here, so I’ll give you a pat on the back and say well done, you are the best, because clearly you cannot leave this and have to have another dig

OP posts:

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 19:08

5128gap · 09/05/2024 18:50

But a woman going back to an abusive partner, or with a pattern of relationships where she is abused then failing to take advice to leave, is the exact opposite to the situation you're frightened of, which is women being wrongly advised by MN and acting on advice and leaving happy marriages to good men. Which, I'll stick my neck out here, and bet my house, has never happened. What could happen though, is that if a woman is in an abusive relationship and people tell her it's her fault, or it's nothing, so she should stay, is that she could be persuaded to stay in misery and danger. Because it's much easier to persuade someone to maintain the status quo than to make a life changing move.
Do you agree that's the greater risk?

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Yes of course that is a greater risk, I’m happy to say that because of you taking the time to listen, try and see what I’m saying and responding rather than just yelling (typing) that I’m wrong, happy to say that you have opened my eyes and I’m going to say you are right, about all of it. I can see how my post while well intentioned at the time wasn’t done in the best way, however some good has come of this post, in just 2 days you have shown me a new way to see some of the things I see on here, without my thread and you commenting I may have taken longer to see things, so thankyou wise woman

OP posts:

Catsmere · 09/05/2024 22:06

OP, even if most women on MN did hate men - so what? What harm does women talking amongst themselves do men? Why are you so freaked out by what you call the "vibe"? Nobody's making you read the site, or even the sections where male behaviour is discussed. This all comes across as a post with no point, unless it's a What About the Menz one.

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 22:37

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 18:50

😂

Firstly you are assuming that I'm in the UK, secondly that I work a standard 9-5, and thirdly that I have the sort of job where I cannot organise my own time.

As it so happens I was working on a particularly challenging funding brief today and in between meetings with senior leaders, conducting cost analyses and evaluating impact pathways I took breaks on Mumsnet. Not bad for a woman whose mum was forced to leave school at 12 years old because her dad decided she didn't need education eh?

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Not sure why your grandfather "forcing" your mum to leave school at 12 has to do with your job now?

SabreIsMyFave · 09/05/2024 23:05

Catsmere · 09/05/2024 22:06

OP, even if most women on MN did hate men - so what? What harm does women talking amongst themselves do men? Why are you so freaked out by what you call the "vibe"? Nobody's making you read the site, or even the sections where male behaviour is discussed. This all comes across as a post with no point, unless it's a What About the Menz one.

This. ^ Most women have been fucked over, abused, lied to, assaulted, letched at, groped, and cheated on by men over their lifetime at one time or another. Most men, given the chance, will cheat. And they all lie. Men see women as fair game to letch at, grope, and harass, and look down on them as inferior and beneath them. If most women hate men deep down - is it any wonder?

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 23:05

@AbFabDaaaaahling why have you used quote marks for the word "forcing"? Do you not believe that it happened or is it that you think leaving school at the age of 12 was my mother's decision?

And you know what the focus of this thread is right? A good chunk of the last 600 odd posts have been about the ways in which men mistreat women. So you don't think it's relevant that just one generation ago in my case, girls were routinely taken out of school before they were even teens so they could start performing the domestic labour in the home while boys continued with their education? That's not a significant example of one of the ways in which men have historically kept women down? By denying them education? I thought you were a teacher?

How do you think my mum feels about that injustice to this day? She had to watch her brothers go to school while she stayed home and cleaned and cooked for the family.

So yes, my example is significant. It makes me furious on behalf of all the women who came before me who were not only not given any choices but were actively prevented from having a stake in their own futures. By men.

And before anyone chimes in with how much things have changed etc. I am in my 30s. It really was not that long ago and is still happening the world over.

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 23:10

@PamPamPamPam Have you had counselling about all of this? It's not good for you to be carrying such anger❤

Original poster

Tanyahawkes · 09/05/2024 23:12

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 23:05

@AbFabDaaaaahling why have you used quote marks for the word "forcing"? Do you not believe that it happened or is it that you think leaving school at the age of 12 was my mother's decision?

And you know what the focus of this thread is right? A good chunk of the last 600 odd posts have been about the ways in which men mistreat women. So you don't think it's relevant that just one generation ago in my case, girls were routinely taken out of school before they were even teens so they could start performing the domestic labour in the home while boys continued with their education? That's not a significant example of one of the ways in which men have historically kept women down? By denying them education? I thought you were a teacher?

How do you think my mum feels about that injustice to this day? She had to watch her brothers go to school while she stayed home and cleaned and cooked for the family.

So yes, my example is significant. It makes me furious on behalf of all the women who came before me who were not only not given any choices but were actively prevented from having a stake in their own futures. By men.

And before anyone chimes in with how much things have changed etc. I am in my 30s. It really was not that long ago and is still happening the world over.

I have heard of this being the norm in travelling communities (no prejudice intended to yourself if this is your community, or to anyone else in the travelling communities) and I think this still happens if I’m not mistaken

OP posts:

taleasoldashoney · 09/05/2024 23:14

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 23:10

@PamPamPamPam Have you had counselling about all of this? It's not good for you to be carrying such anger❤

Do you really want to be the person who goads a woman for being successful in a county where only a generation ago women were routinely denied education?

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 23:16

@taleasoldashoney She's angry and that's not healthy for anyone. Nothing to do with her being "successful" as many women indeed are.

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 23:18

@AbFabDaaaaahling and this is the point at which respectful debate ends for me. You are clearly not interacting with me in good faith so I won't be responding to you anymore.

taleasoldashoney · 09/05/2024 23:19

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 23:16

@taleasoldashoney She's angry and that's not healthy for anyone. Nothing to do with her being "successful" as many women indeed are.

Your emotions aren't exactly coming across as healthy at this point either

Many women are successful. Some people have an easier path to success than others though due to their background, medical issues, money, family support etc. @PamPamPamPam sounds like she's had it harder than some so I'm not sure why you seem determined to drag her achievements down

taleasoldashoney · 09/05/2024 23:21

Actually scrap my above post @AbFabDaaaaahling , I agree with the post about this not being respectful debate and I have no wish to drag this out further. I won't be responding further to your posts on this subject if you do make any more.

Catsmere · 09/05/2024 23:22

SabreIsMyFave · 09/05/2024 23:05

This. ^ Most women have been fucked over, abused, lied to, assaulted, letched at, groped, and cheated on by men over their lifetime at one time or another. Most men, given the chance, will cheat. And they all lie. Men see women as fair game to letch at, grope, and harass, and look down on them as inferior and beneath them. If most women hate men deep down - is it any wonder?

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Exactly! Why wouldn't any woman with a scintilla of awareness hate the class that does all this?

AbFabDaaaaahling · 09/05/2024 23:23

@taleasoldashoney You're being ridiculous now! The lady is angry, she hates all men, she clearly feels very hard done by. Even successful people need support sometimes. And that's OK.

PamPamPamPam · 09/05/2024 23:24

@Tanyahawkes it's still happening the world over I'm afraid, and it makes me sad to think of everything we have missed out on as a society by men denying women education for so long. I wonder where we would be in terms of technological advances etc. if women had been able to take an active role in society?

That's the point I was making, in my family there has been a seismic shift in one generation, what could be achieved in say five generations in all families if girls' education was valued as highly as boys' education on a global scale?