To think most women on here hate men

[Tanyahawkes]

Sorry for the rant but I’m noticing a pattern on mn, any post involving a man and a disagreement results in multiple calls of he’s a narcissist, he’s abusing, he’s controlling, leave the bastard!

I’ll admit that a list of posts do involve behaviour that is not nice from dh and dp. So many posts also can be interpreted in many ways too, I just feel like a large number of women jump to the worst conclusion first about a strangers partner, having only one side of a story told in a short version.

for anyone misunderstanding me, if a post says the partner is hurting physically, calling names, cheating, putting the op down, then yes I agree, ltb (so long as the post is true) it’s when a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist etc

I’d be done with a man who behaved like that. Truly awful.

My DH upset me once when I was pregnant / silly argument over directions when driving. I was upset - he was falling over himself to apologise. I would have accepted nothing less. In the thread you’ve linked, he compounded his initial carrying on by doubling down on the blame. What is wrong with telling someone that that marriage is not good? It isn’t.

It is super grody isn't it? 😂 leave him !

I fully accept that the way this is told by the op is a bad reaction on his part all round, he may well be like this all the time. I’m also aware and of the opinion that the person who posted may have been upset and maybe recounted it in a way where some small details are not there, to say someone has a temper in not an outright “they are an abuser” I know people who are quick to temper who are not abusers. In every situation there are 3 sides, his, hers and the truth for example, and by this I don’t mean anyone outright lies (some do) but sometimes emotions may make people tell their version in a way that is not 100% the way it happened. Sometimes! And this is not the case all of the time, I’m not talking about if someone does something that is 100% abuse, hitting, rape, sexual assault and a lot more situations are black and white wrong and abuse

no doubt I’ll get flamed for this again though

Can you please explain them why you called a poster "practically abusive" just for implying you were stupid then?

You seem to have a very low bar for posters, mostly women on here, and where you accuse them of being abusive, and when you deem it reasonable for posters to think a man might be abusive.

People having a different opinion to you are not necessarily flaming you. You have quite a victim mentality which is interesting to see over the course of the thread.

What does me saying one person called me stupid have to do with the comment I replied to? These are 2 different things, and quite frankly the fact that if a man calls his partner stupid, or even implies it, he gets called an abuser, yet if a woman does the same to another woman it’s not classified as abusive by these same women, this absolutely astounds me. If a man was to say to a woman half the things that have been said to me by women on this thread, he’s an abuser, gaslighting maybe, yet I’m meant to roll over and take it from women online. Why is this?

If a man was to say to a woman half the things that have been said to me by women on this thread, he’s an abuser, gaslighting maybe, yet I’m meant to roll over and take it from women online. Why is this?

Where have I said this?

I didn’t say you have personally said that, but how many would say this was unkind, or a red flag, verbal abuse etc? I do feel like some people on here actually don’t want to see another persons point of view

Then I am confused as to why you are asking me to explain other peoples thinking.

I do feel like some people on here actually don’t want to see another persons point of view

Given when other people have alternative points of view about the threads you posted you referred to that as "being flamed" you might want to look to your own behaviour a little.

@Tanyahawkes you are missing out a lot of nuance.

If someone calls me an idiot in one conversation that is not abusive.

If that same person continuously and systematically keeps calling me stupid then that is abuse. I am yet to come across a thread on MN where a poster creates a post because their male partner has called them ONE name ONCE. You dig a little deeper and it always turns out that there was a pattern of behaviour and then a specific instance has been the straw to break the camel's back.

So yes, out of context there are threads where a poster may say their partner has just called them stupid and they've had enough. And then in subsequent posts it becomes clear that while the name calling is new, the behaviour is not, and it is just a new aspect of the abuse. That is what the posters on this thread are saying and what you do not seem to be understanding.

In the previous example of the poster's husband going off on her when she is pregnant, she clearly says that he has always had anger issues and been moody. So while that may have been the first ever instance where he threatened to divorce her and started yelling at her, it is certainly not the first instance of her having to be aware of, and potentially placate, the anger and moodiness of this man. Perhaps it is the first time that it has been directed at her and it has opened her eyes to how dangerous and abusive that pattern of behaviour actually is? But yes, on the surface of it, you could make the argument that that woman had one argument with her husband and posters are telling her to LTB. Your argument would be wrong.

You must see the difference between a stranger calling you stupid on a forum on the basis of something you have said that they believe to be unintelligent (which is rude, but simply a case of judgement based on what you've revealed of yourself in your post); and your life partner who knows and is supposed to respect you, doing the same?

Yes of course that is valid that you should expect loved ones to treat you better than strangers. At the same time is it then ok for a stranger to abuse you? And I mean any abuse, no matter how mild or severe, I’m not in any way comparing mild verbal abuse to much worse scenarios? And yes, calling someone stupid is mild verbal abuse

Again I do see your points. Can anybody answer this for me thought please, if I had called another member of Mumsnet stupid (directly or implied) for their views, what would have been your reaction towards me?

@Tanyahawkes from my perspective I do not see any value in us calling each other names but respectful debate needs to go further than that as well.

These conversations need to move beyond the personal and we actually need to be able to have a wider discussion. I personally do get very frustrated in conversations like this where posters focus all their arguments on their own personal situations without actually looking beyond themselves.

This is not about how poster X feels about their lovely husband, it is about the fact that we live in a societal structure that does not work for the vast majority of citizens, with women bearing the brunt.

Thankyou for your respectful response, I fully agree it should not get personal, and this is my point in some of my more recent replies, it should never have got personal, it should have been possible to have a grown up discussion. One where nobody was made to feel as though their opinion was invalid, not one person.

yes society still has a very long way to go, changes for the better are too slow

A poster on a forum was advised to (LTB) by other posters because her partner was not giving her enough attention or emotional support after receiving negative feedback in her job performance review. Many users on the forum tend to start their complaints with similar issues, such as unequal division of household tasks and feeling unsupported by their partners. For instance, some users may complain that their partners work longer hours than they do, yet they still expect them to contribute equally to household chores. Usually admitting the DP in question is under pressure at work, ill or some other extraneous. circumstance.

It's the place to vent, yet others take great delight in extrapolating that scenario to either fit a fictitious story or compare it to their own.

I do. I could quite easily become a full on misandrist, if it wasn't for my lovely DS.

Take the number of women who experience rape, sexual assault, domestic abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse. Add in those that experience cat calling, objectification, inequality at work. Add in general sexism or inequal division of Labour.

Then add in the number of men wanking themselves watching images of women being raped /abused. Men who use prostitutes. Men having affairs.

Divide by total number of men.

Even allowing that some men will fall into more than one category, the sad truth is that a significant majority of men are horrible, even if only for a part of their daily lives, which women may or may not get to see.

No, it's not OK to call another poster on MN stupid. If a person's comment indicates they are not particularly intellectually capable, the polite thing is to keep that to oneself and comment on the stupidity of their point not them as a person. However, I don't really understand what you're trying to demonstrate with that? That sometimes women can be rude on MN? We know this.
That throwing around insults is abusive behaviour? We know this too, it's exactly what the people who say LTB are arguing, surely? If you've become upset at a stranger on here calling you stupid, doesn't that just prove the point that if you hear than from your husband it's even less ok, and if he does it and upsets you on the regular you may indeed want to consider LTB?

There are individual men who I love dearly, but men as a whole need to do better.

Casual sexism and misogyny is still rife in every area of society. Too many women are still discriminated against or overlooked in the workplace, too many women are subjected to sexual assault and harassment in public and in private and Domestic Abuse continues to be a massive public health issue in this country.

I work with children and families and I genuinely think the average person has no idea how common coercive control and emotional abuse from men towards women in relationships actually is, and the many forms it can take. If there are many women on MN "projecting" about control and abuse on relationship threads that is because so many have experienced it and are hypervigilant as a result. I also work with a lot of women who are experiencing it but are in total denial because they are conditioned to accept shit treatment for themselves and make excuses for men. For every post I see on here saying LTB I see a lot more falling over themselves to excuse vile male behaviour.

Before anyone starts bleating that it's NOT ALL MEN by the way, I really don't care. Because let's be honest, it may not be all men but it is a fuck-ton of men. And you rarely see the ones it's not actually doing anything about it. Most men think that if they're not the one doing it that's enough but they're not challenging other men, they're not stepping up and making a stand. At least not in a way that requires any genuine sacrifice.

It's not just at home and at work either. Institutional sexism is still a big problem in this country. It is well documented that women with chronic pain are less likely to recieve timely and effective treatment. Women have been given good reason to distrust or even fear the Police in recent years and the Court system is letting everyone down, but women and children most of all. The press continues to pit women against each other, and even the most powerful, successful and influential women are objectified, infantilised or vilified in all of our media.

I wouldn't say I "hate men", but I'm definitely sick and tired of their collective shit. Maya Angelou said it best "I'd be stupid not to be on my own side" and I'm sorry but anyone who says there aren't sides hasn't been paying attention.

Yet you make unsubstantiated claims in your post and then say I don't care.
It's like saying this is my opinion so it must be right.
I'm on the board of directors, 2/3rds are women. And over 2/3rds of nonsense bickering between colleagues is guess what.
Women.

"I'm on the board of directors, 2/3rds are women. And over 2/3rds of nonsense bickering between colleagues is guess what.
Women."

@Missamyp what does the above have to do with anything? Can you explain please.

The majority of posters on this forum are women the MRA-style posters are obvious, they're called out quickly and gain zero support.
The bullying and lack of cohesive thought and emotional rhetoric are wholly created and carried out by women on this forum.

Read the quoted post and stop being so facetious.

@Missamyp I have, and your response does not make any sense. Are you implying that the "nonsense bickering" by women on boards that you have witnessed negates the reality of sexism?

Women can be awful, terrible, abusive. But sexism still exists. So what point are you trying to make?

Thankyou for acknowledging that what I said about the calling someone stupid is abusive, of all the people who have disagreed with what I’ve said, you are the first in that reply to actually seem to consider what I’ve said and say “yes that’s wrong”

I suppose my point with any comments about that and other things said to people in personal attacks, no matter how mild, is that when a man says anything similar to a woman, he’s being sexist, misogynistic, abusive (take your pick from any or all plus more words to describe) and yet if a woman says similar to a man, it’s justified because men say worse and do worse, when a woman says it to a woman it gets brushed off as “I didn’t say anything abusive to you” she’s laughed at, ridiculed etc, if a man said to a woman “I didn’t say anything abusive to you” it’s gaslighting, but if a woman on Mumsnet says that, it’s backed up with a sort of gang mentality of other women supporting her in solidarity, because “we believe your opinion is not valid, we believe your opinion is horse shit” any combination of similar statements.

so the vibe I’m getting on here is “because men say worse on male dominated threads/do worse in person etc that makes it ok to aim milder in men’s directions, but that’s ok because men do and say worse.
then when a woman on here dares to speak an opinion that is not the majority, it’s acceptable to ridicule and verbally abuse, that is not a grown up healthy debate, it is essentially a milder version of the abuse some men inflict on women and a form of sexism, but that’s ok because it’s not raping and beating men and all other forms of abuse that women have been subjected to.

one poster on this thread said something thought provoking earlier and I wish I could remember the wording as I do not want to mis quote, I will try and find the post to not leave confusion, if I do I will tag you in the quote