To think most women on here hate men

[Tanyahawkes]

Sorry for the rant but I’m noticing a pattern on mn, any post involving a man and a disagreement results in multiple calls of he’s a narcissist, he’s abusing, he’s controlling, leave the bastard!

I’ll admit that a list of posts do involve behaviour that is not nice from dh and dp. So many posts also can be interpreted in many ways too, I just feel like a large number of women jump to the worst conclusion first about a strangers partner, having only one side of a story told in a short version.

for anyone misunderstanding me, if a post says the partner is hurting physically, calling names, cheating, putting the op down, then yes I agree, ltb (so long as the post is true) it’s when a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist etc

I suppose after a few hours of being blasted in here by most in this thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve not had a traumatic enough experience with a man/men to become what I see as men hating, I suppose I still have the belief that there is a decent amount of good men out there. It’s just my opinion, I’m not trying to say it’s a fact when I interpret a post differently from others. I hope my daughters have better experiences of men than I have, and that they know the horrors exist but don’t experience them.

Ive not intended to trigger anybody, it seems I might have, and believe me when I say I have not meant any offence, I’ve not meant to make anybody relive any bad experiences, I fully understand that there are some monsters out there who deserve for karma to fuck them sideways.

for anyone who thinks this is a joke, a man posting etc, It’s not, I am a woman, a 40 year old mum of 5 girls

So there are some posts deleted so I may have missed it, but I can't actually see where posters have told the OP to LTB?

I can see a lot of posters telling the OP she was in the wrong though along with some posters understanding why the OP was upset and how the boyfriend had been a bit thoughtless. There are a couple of posts around red flags but other than that the general consensus seems to be that the OP was in the wrong and the boyfriend was trying his best.

Not sure that's a particularly good example of how all mnetters hate men tbh. Also can't see where the partner was called a narcissist as per your OP.

But as I say there are a couple of deleted posts, perhaps they changed the tone of the thread?

I can see your point of view on this, it’s given me a different way to think about what I said.
my apology was not meant as sorry not sorry, it was meant in the same vein as when you don’t mean to hurt someone’s feelings, so you say sorry. But maybe you don’t understand why their feelings are hurt, but you know at the same time their feelings are valid and not to be dismissed, if you get what I mean. So I’ll say again I’m sorry, but this time it’s because you have explained it in a way I’ve recognised that while I meant no harm, I did in fact cause offence, and because you took the time to explain I can actually see your point and why so many ladies on here were offended

There may have been more deleted since I saw the thread, ones I saw were along the lines of, he’s in the wrong not you, red flags etc. my op when I said narcissist it was a reference to most posts, not that one in particular. I didn’t see anyone say the lady who’s partner got her birthday present wrong was a narcissist

The issue is that you are still calling the vast majority of women on MN "man hating" but now it's because we are all traumatised

No, it's that we recognise patterns of male behaviour and comment accordingly. It's rare every poster agrees, and it might not be right 100% of the time, but the use of "man hating" is usually flung at the posters because the person slinging the insult is uncomfortable with the behaviours being pointed out as abusive.

But it remains as always the 12th rule of mysoginy

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

The whole "you must be traumatised to be responding like this" sounds incredibly close to "you are just hormonal" etc

Many posters have actually articulated that they have great partners/husbands. I do myself. I don't need to have been traumatised by men to recognise patterns of behaviour that can point to abuse. It doesn't make me a man hater to point those out.

Yeah there are a few posters pointing out that he messed up by ignoring what she wanted and buying something that upset her

There is one poster who said it was a red flag

There were quite a few posters who told the OP she was the one in the wrong

If you only focus on the few that prove your point you are going to prove it, but you are missing the bigger picture with that thread where most posters actually are saying the opposite

I’ve read every comment on the thread you linked and there is NOT ONE poster who:

“tried to convince the woman her partner was abusing her”

NOT ONE.

Most posters stated the man’s gift was thoughtless, tone deaf, insulting or insensitive. One poster questioned why the OP always felt the need to back down and apologise— in response to this, ONE person added a red flag emoji. Just TWO comments were deleted by the same poster.

Several people believed OP’s partner tried to do right thing and encouraged OP to be kinder and communicate with her partner during this difficult time (cancer diagnosis and treatment).

However, your claim that “so many people tried to convince the woman her partner was abusing her“ is an outright lie and fully discredits the point you believe yourself to be making.

There is not ONE PERSON on that thread who states OP is being abused. In fact, the word “abuse” doesn’t even appear on that thread.

Funnily enough, no one tells the OP she should LTB either.

Third time lucky with your next link?

Anyway, sometimes you can learn by admitting you're wrong. Sometimes you double down. Either way, hopefully you'll examine your own biases as they're pretty clear, if not now then at some point.

Thanks for the apology @Tanyahawkes I appreciate it.

And again, you're exaggerating to make your point.
The majority of responses are supportive to the partner and the relationship.
There are a few posters talking about how insensitive and tone deaf he was, which is true, and a few picking up on the fact that the OP herself said she always feels like she's apologising to him even when he's in the wrong. I didn't see the word abuse thrown around at all - I may have missed one and if so I apologise, but it certainly isn't a dominant theme in that thread.

You are seeing what you want to see, but it isn't there.

No. Plenty have indeed had traumatic experiences because they're extremely common.

However, even someone living in a bubble can read what women are actually saying, acknowledge their lived experiences and not expect other woman to try to silence, tone police and accused them of behaviour they are simply not exhibiting.

Women are human and they're entitled to talk about their extremely common, frightening and distressing experiences at the hands of men in any way they choose.

And still, they're not exhibiting misandry, just appropriate emotions because they feel safe to do so.

I'm pretty fed up with a lot of men. Not my DH but thanks to this place I have learned to be very clear with him about what i expect as a life partner. I don't think it's any secret that Mumsnet is populated with fairly switched on women and it's a place where they can talk openly and anonymously about what it's like to be a women in a patriarchal world, which ours is. I don't hate men, a lot of them I really like, but i'm not going to get on here and talk about them because I don't need to. If I want to talk about a dickhead, though, I will come here and find plenty of women who get it. And I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of men on here who also get it. the patriarchy fucks everyone.

Hmm, in the couples I know where one works long hours and the other only does a couple of days despite the kids being at school or grown, it's always the man working the long hours.

I'm not seeing the privilege in working full time for an extra three decades while the wife stops FT work at 30. Possibly why 4x more men commit suicide. 🤔

I’ve not had a traumatic enough experience with a man/men to become what I see as men hating

How worrying that you see women's trauma, or even women taking steps for their protection against trauma, as women hating men. Perhaps you'll reconsider this concerning, sexist and ignorant position now that you know better, Tanya.

for anyone who thinks this is a joke

I don't think anyone at any point thought it was a joke but it's so wilfully ignorant that laughing at it might be the only suitable response, because you clearly haven't learned anything. Even your acknowledgement of abuse is just lip service to get to the imaginary man hating. There's still that "I just believe there are decent men out there" crap, to imply that others have been saying that all men are evil.

For context, a few posts from the 'oppressed' women of mumsnet. 🤣 (pinched from another thread about how lucky women that don't have to work are).

"My sil is 44, rich and has NEVER had a job, lucky her! She has no trouble filling her day and has a great life."

"Dp earns the money then gives it to me. Why would I feel oppressed?"

"I haven't worked in 8 years and bloody love it! I got to go shopping without ds today and have a long lunch with a friend. Going to the gym now."

"My friend is married to the son of a billionaire and sometimes I have to block her on social media because her life is one long holiday."

"I dont work, I was able to be a sahm with my sons, both in 30s now. I lunch, dressmake, walk my dogs for miles, spend time with friends and family etc....I also volunteer for a small homeless charity, something I am so passionate about, being literally close to home. I feel totally fulfilled!"

" My DSis married a very high earner and has never worked a day in her life."

" My DH works 80 hours a week for a signficant amount of money, which allows me to be a SAHM and indulge myself, allow me to do all of my volunteering and my hobbies."

"I work just a few hours a week in a job I love doing, I don’t have to work for financial reasons. I’ve accidentally ended up with a really high earning DH. I enjoy having lots of time to myself, I have hobbies, an amazing spa membership and an extremely fortunate to have some really good friends whom I’m able to see nearly every week."

"My SIL is lucky enough to not have to work due to DB’s income. She has nice things, goes out for lots of lunches."

"I'm a SAHM who has teenage children and is fortunate to be married to a high earner so I haven't needed to work since having kids. We do have a lifestyle that most people would find impressive."

"I choose not to work. DH works really long shifts and odd hours so can be out of the house either days or nights, with each week being different. When the kids are grown I'll go and get some post-sahm work. Maybe in a shop, factory, cafe or something similar."

"The funniest post was Monday morning when she started by posting “it’s going to be a long week, hoping the nanny isn’t late” followed by “anyone know a place I can get nails done, not happy with the place I’ve been going as I think they overcharge and wanting a day to pamper myself a bit.”

"I feel lucky that I don't need to work. I am not getting any benefits because dh earns enough."

"I'm lucky in that I didn't have to carry on working."

"I am lucky enough not to work and stay at home with my son, as DH is a high earner. I feel extremely grateful for this every day, and try very hard not to take it for granted."

I’m fairly sure I’ve voted YABU where a woman is being unreasonable, I’ve even sided with a few MIL’s!

But the husband in that thread was a toxic idiot who didn't look after his own niece, left it to his wife, then acted like a madman when the op saved the niece from being hurt, then reacted really oddly the rest of the night.

What's normal about that??

I haven't seen people telling women in good marriages to good men to LTB. But a lot of the women who post on here are in terrible marriages to terrible men, so LTB is good advice.

Blimey, op, don't you think it's time to give up?

You were asked for examples of 'women telling women to LTB over a trivial argument' and you have managed to provide ... NONE.

Doesn't that suggest that it doesn't happen? 🙄

Agreed!

No. I think you're exaggerating. There's no such thing as 1000% and no, of course 999 posters out of 1000 don't immediately jump to LTB. A few people say this. Sometimes when it's good advice. Sometimes when I think its knee jerk, but the vast majority say nothing of the sort when discussing everyday marital arguments.
What I've noticed is an increase in the opposite with a cohort urging women to put up with very unacceptable behaviour on pain of being accused of being 'controlling', 'insecure', 'paranoid', 'unhinged', even abusive themselves for challenging their partner. These posts are by far the more dangerous.
No one is going to leave their husband over an unemptied bin just because a few MN posters say so. However they may well stay in an abusive relationship if they are gaslighted into believing they're the problem, because that often confirms their own view point.

Absolutely this!! But it's justified by claims they're a "feminist"! They're not.

For every “lucky” woman that doesn’t work
i estimate there are 1000 that do the lions share of the family drudge work.

I have literally NEVER known a woman who didn't work and run the family too. In working class women it has absolutely always been the norm, and only in American 50s sitcoms did women not work for money as well as working to run the house and family.

And I don't know any woman who only works a couple of days has retired early. Every woman I know well works at least 4 days a week and is in their 50s or 60s.

Many more women attempt suicide than men. More men manage it because they use different methods.

This is a fact that is ignored - and it definitely shouldn't be a competition, but men do like to make it one.

https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508

a post says “great relationship, today partner upset me and we couldn’t see eye to eye” and everyone calls the poor guy a narcissist

I’m still agog at this epistemological mess from the OP’s opening post.

I really don't think that the women on this forum hate all men...That's nonsensical.

Instead they are calling out the men who:

-try to control and gaslight
-abuse and rape
-can't be arsed to look after their kids and/or pay for their upkeep
-cheat
-are hooked on porn and only see women as sex objects.

The issue is that the above behaviour is unfortunately widespread and it is important for women to talk about and challenge it rather than be expected to put up with it or things will never change.

Just 'hoping' that your daughters won't experience this is a bit naive.

Unless we keep voicing our concerns and force society to change, then women and girls will continue to be targeted.

The first step of change is for society to admit that there is a problem with the behaviour of a large proportion of men to start with.

If you try to pretend this is not an issue then things won't improve.

I suggest you start to have a look at the stats for how many women and girls experience sexual violence in the UK to open your eyes.

-86% of women aged 18-24 said they had been sexually harassed in a public space
-798,000 women across England and Wales are raped or sexually assaulted every year. That’s 1 in 30 women
-On average, 2 women a week are killed by a current or former partner in England and Wales.

Convictions rates for rape are pitifully low too.

Women don't hate men, they hate men who hurt them...and often get away with it.