Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

[Beeturpot]

ex dh is a surgeon. He became a consultant after we separated. I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc. He said he couldn’t leave if in work as it wasn’t the sort of job that allowed it.

I have recently been promoted. I’m feeling resentful that I am doing all the running around for dc. They live with me. Is he right that this is too difficult for him? He claims to start work by 8am and often leaves late. I don’t know anyone in his area of work and i don’t know if he’s taking the piss. He does do his share at weekends. Just feeling fed up.

Nope. Consultants striked, for a long time. Did you miss it? Due to massive pay erosion, more than everyone else in the public sector. Perhaps Google it, it went on for a long time. Many appointments and ops were cancelled.

MY daughter is in medicine. She lives with a warehouse worker. My mother (outed on the "Snob" thread) was horrified and asked why she isnt with a doctor. She said because all the men are shits who assume that their job is more important "Oh the wife will sort it" even if they are lower grade than "the wife" and the women end up on their knees.

But hey, dont let facts change your uninformed predjudice :)

Then they shouldn't have been allowed to. My heart bleeds for them on their 90k+ salaries.

You clearly don't work in the NHS or the medical field so you have an idealised view of how things should be. The NHS is very stretched right now so there might not necessarily be someone to take on another's workload. Often there really isn't. That's why unfortunately the whole system (not just surgery) of the NHS is so utterly broken. You make blasé remarks about "this not being the job for you" to a very reasonable PP but could you take on any job within the NHS? It's always those who don't or won't or can't do a tough job who put unrealistic pressure on those who do. It's part of why the country is in decline.

Sounds like the only people who should dare become surgeons are single people with no parents or family or anyone who may possibly ever become a dependent and who can be chained to the operating bed 24/7 and have no life. Nice.

My facts come from the people I work with in healthcare. Your daughter sounds like she has issues if she thinks ALL male doctors are like that. I know at least 20 who aren't, and I'd say it's much rarer to have doctors with that attitude than not, and it's usually because they're from a culture with those kinds of traditional values than because they're a doctor. But let's face it, a warehouse worker doesn't have the natural high ground, so it's never tested. If the warehouse worker became the warehouse owner, then you'd see if they changed their tune or not. Otherwise it's a nice cushy ride for them and no one questioning them either way.

I don't have an idealised view of it at all. As someone who has the misfortune to be on the other end of the situation, I know the NHS is a complete shitshow.

All the more reason why consultants shouldn't be allowed to cancel operations to deal with completely avoidable childcare issues.

If you work in a job like that, male OR female, you need a plan B.

Well it doesn’t really matter if your heart bleeds or not.
its just not enough for what they sacrifice to train, and it falls very short of for example nearby Ireland (270k). Huge numbers moving to Canada, Oz etc.
the government didn’t see fit to pay fairly. Consultants overwhelmed voted to strike and strike we did, for a long time.

It's plenty. And plenty enough to afford to pay for a babysitter so your patients don't end up with inoperable cancer, like a poor PP who's had her surgery cancelled four times.
But no, at least two surgeons on this thread think that apparently they "shouldn't have to do that".

"If he's up to his arms in a patient in the middle of surgery he can't just drop everything to go and pick up a child from a playdate"🤣🤣🤣

I already imagined how a surgeon in the middle of a surgery is telling to everyone: "sorry, I'm out, family emergency " 🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♀️

He can't just leave work on a whim in a role like that, but he can pay for a nanny or au pair to share the load.

I wouldn't care whether he's a surgeon, a space man or a supermarket worker, he's also a dad and he has to pull his weight.

OP ask him to send you shifts time, and plan your time accordingly. Ask him specifically how often his shift time is changing last minute. Obviously, if is once a month is ok, but if it's every day, then he's lying. All surgeries and appointments are planned ahead.

He's definitely a good surgeon then if he doesn't think postponing life saving operations is reasonable in order to pick up his children.
I fail to see how any NHS or even private doctor or nurse of any level could bunk their shifts for this? Hopefully he has money, so could he not fund a childminder to ease the burden?

I don't think your being unreasonable at all, I know of two consultants at work that have had to leave for childcare reasons..........strangely enough they are both female!! Surgeons are not permanently in theatre, they are often in clinics,ward rounds, teaching or at lunch.

What? You expect him to be available during his work time like you? No, he can't.

Some jobs, being a surgeon is one of those jobs where is unreasonable to drop out the job and be available for your family. Especially if it's not a life and death situation. Even during a life and death situation, he may not be available same moment, and you'll need to wait a few hours.

Consultants I work with have to make very late adjustments to clinics, surgical lists etc due to, in no particular order and off the top of my head -

Illness
Child illness
Other caring responsibility (e.g. elderly parent crisis)
Nanny illness
Grandparent (back up childcare) illness
Teenage child crisis (mental health)
Delayed travel back from leave
Bike accident on way to work
Bereavement
Emergency dental issue
Delays on motorway on way to work
Broken bones (mountain biking)

In fact all the same things that other people experience in life. Short of expecting consultants not to have children, not to mix at parties/events to catch illnesses, not to go on holiday in case they get stuck, not to have any physical hobbies, not to be in relationship with other doctors, not to travel to work... Even the best laid plans of back ups fail.

It isn't proportionate to have multiple layers of expensive back ups just in case. As per my list above small child illness is an occasional factor and one factor among many. Doctors are not robots, they are human like the rest of us. And, all bar one that I have worked with over my career, they are extremely dedicated to their work.

But life happens and expecting otherwise is ridiculous. Doctors are bound by the same set of leave policies as the rest of us (sick, carers leave, special leave, bereavement leave, parental leave etc) so if some on here are angry about Doctors having occasionally to take time off in an emergency, take it up with the policy makers not the individuals. And calling Doctors out for being morally and ethically unsuitable for the job if they don't sacrifice themselves on the altar of their job at the expense of their life is insulting.

I'm sure a surgeon is more than capable of arranging childcare. It's not the OP's job to facilitate his career.

Is good to hear from you, because you work with them. Can you please be more specific about what you mean by "very late adjustments to clinics"?

Does it mean they have an X amount of hours before they can make late adjustments, for example 24hr notice or 48 hr notice?

Or it means they can do it while at work, for example, they started working and after 4 hr, out of blue they need to make "very late adjustments" and leave work ASAP within 1hr and not finish their work shift after starting it?

No, in my experience it is more often than not the exact opposite. People are usually quite willing to step up and help in a crisis if a colleague is unexpectedly ill or has some kind of personal problem, but I have never worked in a department that has the spare capacity to cover Consultants' entire workload when they are on holiday or long term sick etc.
Obviously the emergency cover has to be maintained at all times and it's a contractual obligation for most Consultants to absorb their colleagues' out of hours commitments when they are on holiday or study leave. So they'll be doing their own work, plus their share of the extra emergency cover but not the absent person's routine work. Some things might be suitable to delegate to a junior but if not, clinics, theatre lists etc just don't get booked. So no patients are actually cancelled as they never got a date in the first place, but the session isn't used so the effect on the waiting list is the same.
Same kind of thing with long term sickness. Plugging a gap for a few days is one thing and most people will help if they can, but if a colleague is off for months there is rarely the capacity to maintain full cover. We'd always ask for a locum in such circumstances but sometimes either the funding isn't forthcoming or you can't find anyone suitable in which case emergency cover is the priority and elective work suffers. You can't expect staff to do the work of more than one person indefinitely but they'll usually step up in an emergency.

My child's surgeon told me that if you have a patient all prepped and ready to go for a procedure, you better be just about dying before you cancel it. I would be very upset if my surgeon was unreliable for this sort of thing. Not upset at his wife, but at him for not having other arrangements in place. I would change doctors if this was the sort of reason he was cancelling at the last minute. I can see for a surgeon this would be hard, but then he has to make other arrangements to cover himself. Not his wife, if she isn't able or willing to do it. What if she was a surgeon too?

I feel your pain OP as my own career has been sacrificed on the altar of my DH's career. It would bite more if it was an ex. You and your ex need to come up with an alternative, which might be for him to pay someone to be available to do pick ups if you both can't. Or he can pay you for it.

Can I ask what you think female doctors do? I don’t know any who’ve had to choose ‘one or the other’ and I don’t know any with a SAHP spouse either. Nobody is at home doing the running around for any of us.

OP your ex has to do what all of us who simply cannot leave work do - we have back ups on our backups on our backups and we pay them, from our ‘shiny important job’ pay cheques.

Why can't he pay for a nanny part time to collect the children and look after them until you are home from work. That would make your life so much easier and less stressful.

OP my husband is a consultant surgeon, its not all as black and white as people are saying. Is he NHS or private?

My husband for example works compressed hours, so he is largely unavailable for 4 days of the week. The NHS offer flexible solutions.

As others have said, surgeons are not operating every day, there are some meetings with colleagues for example that can not move. My husband has a weekly meeting at 8am to discuss patients who require clinical decisions spanning departments.

Others diary management is possible normally patient consulting on upcoming surgeries can be planned to suit diaries etc.

I'm not sure how you drill down in your situation however but hopefully that's helpful.

Yup and that’s why I wrote he can outsource the child minding responsibilities that he can’t fulfill. Guess you chose not to read this. It’s not gender specific at all as far as I’m concerned but there are certain jobs that you can’t just drop to pick up a child from a play date