Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

[Beeturpot]

ex dh is a surgeon. He became a consultant after we separated. I did all drop offs etc and was called in all emergencies and if dc needed collecting etc. He said he couldn’t leave if in work as it wasn’t the sort of job that allowed it.

I have recently been promoted. I’m feeling resentful that I am doing all the running around for dc. They live with me. Is he right that this is too difficult for him? He claims to start work by 8am and often leaves late. I don’t know anyone in his area of work and i don’t know if he’s taking the piss. He does do his share at weekends. Just feeling fed up.

I suppose this is an agreement in your household. If you split, would you still expect him to cover all emergencies, even on your days?

I'm a surgeon (not a consultant) and work with several consultant surgeons and tbh all the consultants manage to get some flexibility in

On days your operating this would be tricky, but this is 1-2 days a week. Obviously half way through a patient you couldnt just leave unless you could get someone to cover. I've had surgeons become sick mid operation and a registrar or on call has had to take over. If absolutely necessary the list could get cancelled, but usually would try and find someone else to cover. It depends on the surgery

Clinic days usually what would happen is someone else would cover, our clinics have lots of doctors on them and they would pick up the extra patients. The consultant would go through the list and advise, and be at the end of the phone if necessary

Admin/SPA (which is usually 2-4 sessions a week) you have flexibility and would be able to leave to pick up a sick child. Bearing in mind that others are also on admin/spa time and can again cover your activity if you are in clinic/theatres

At the end of the day its his responsibility to sort childcare on the days he has his child. Whether that be paid childcare, family or rearranging his work. It's not a very flexible job but plenty of people do manage to be a surgeon and care for their child

Cancer surgeons wife here. I have practically raised my daughter by myself whilst supporting his journey to consultant. I’ve accepted his patients come first, on any given day one phone call could mean he’s
operating through the night (emergencies, not theatre days). His job will never allow him to have a consistent time table. I also work full time and have financially supported him through his PHD, moving constantly (don’t get me started on how ridiculous the system is). Long story short it’s not easy and sacrifices have to be made. But he is a fantastic surgeon, gets amazing results and saves lives - and my support has allowed him to do this, it’s the only thing that keeps me going!

I mean if he’s got his hands in someone’s abdomen then no he can’t leave. I work in healthcare, doctors of all specialities, not just surgeons are often late leaving work, they often have full clinics or be on-call therefore leaving mid shift would mean cancelling numerous patient’s appointments. It’s shit but it is what it is. 🤷‍♀️

Honestly I don’t know. I guess I would hope that we could co-parent with civility and since he understands my career choices, respects them and agreed happily to have children with me and then completely accepted this set up with no resentment while married that yes it would continue in separation and I would hope that in return I could do favours for him with childcare during his time. I understand that this is probably idealistic though. I genuinely feel for the OP it can’t be easy and I really wouldn’t want to have a child with a surgeon, their workload is enormous and many are workaholics which makes family life difficult for spouses. I think if the OP wants him to leave work because her job and career is being threatened then that is one thing and definitely needs a conversation on how to manage but if it’s just in the name of “fairness” and he is doing his bit as a father in every other way then no I don’t think he should be the one to leave work. But he should 100% be willing to be flexible to help her out when she needs it since she is helping with this.

Even when they are not doing surgery, they are seeing patients, doing rounds.

If I were you I would keep a record of all that you are doing now time wise, collextions unreliable pick ups and when it comes to it whatever share out in the divorce should be represented financially accordingly.

I have sympathy that even though you are divorcing you are still a slave to his life and not entirely to your own to make your choices as you see fit for yourself. Of course you wouldn't expect him to down scalpel mid operation but he is half responsible for his children so it shouldn't be up to you to sort out his half of the childcare. What you have to consider is whether you would be happy with whatever he put in place in his absence if it isnt you.picking up the pieces... a nanny /a girlfriend /or his mother ...one or all of which may be unpalatable for you.

If it falls to you and you want more say, maybe press for more money from him to pay for a part time nanny that you get to choose to fill in the gaps...that way you get to take your job and have some control over who looks after your children .

Good luck.

Being surgeon is not just having a career. It's much bigger.

Op, ask him to pay for a full time nanny, au pair

Oh do fuck off with BUT HE IS A DOCTOR!!!!!

Without the OP doing all the running around do you really think that he would be a consultant with kids?! NO! He would have had to choose one or the other, thanks to the OP he could have both.

He wouldnt have reached the level he is at if he didnt have the OP doing all the primary parenting and facilitating his career. This is the classic case of the wife losing out so he can do well and then he swans off with his big shiny important job (with pay cheque to match) while she still works her life around the kids but without at least the financial support he would provide. She is still doing her part of the deal but he can conveniently abdicate the part he played as they are divorced. She pays all the rent and bills etc alone and yet is still expected to facilitate him.

ITs gone on too long sadly I think to change, but its bullshit, utter bullshit.

Might not be a bad idea to bring up his alternative childcare options in the divorce "Oh but I cant because I am a Big Important Surgeon"......"A part time nanny would cost X"

And for what's its worth i think yanbu. You are entitled to a life...divorce is divorce, and he is the father of those children so if he can't physically pitch up then he needs to financially pitch up to allow reasonable child care cover in his absence.

I haven't read every post as there are too many, but has anyone suggested that the father reduces his hours or requests changes to his work pattern so he can play a more active role in his child's life? I've seen one suggesting that he works more so that the OP can be more available for child care 🤔 but the flood of "go part time" posts that you'd generally find on any thread where a mother was finding it hard to combine her family and work commitments is conspicuous by its absence.
Men are entitled to apply for flexible working on exactly the same grounds as women after all. Now of course the employer is not obliged to grant anything and he may well get turned down, but you never know if you don't ask and there might be some tweeks to his job plan that would be possible. But what do we think is the probability that he has even considered it?
Of course there is no easy answer. I don't think the OP is really expecting her ex to walk out of theatre or cancel a clinic to do a routine school pick up and realistically 50:50 care would be very difficult. That would probably end up with the OP effectively co parenting with a nanny which may well not what she wants for the child. But she isn't asking for that, she is asking for some contribution to parenting in the week and some recognition that she also has other responsibilities and that is not unreasonable.
There will be potential solutions but they will be tricky,require effort and probably some expense and sacrifices on the part of the father. I know lots of female Consultants many of whom are mothers. Yes, we frequently do have to put work first and my DH definitely did considerably more school runs, parents evenings and nativity plays than me when our children were little but I didn't abdicate all responsibility and I don't know a single medical mother who did. Nobody told our husbands that they knew what we did for a living before they married us and that they shouldn't have had children with a doctor if they weren't prepared to be the default parent at all times. Lots of couples where one or both are doctors find ways to manage. Why should this man get to basically shrug his shoulders and say "I'm a busy person, not my problem" when it comes to his own child?

He can’t leave his clinic or ward rounds , MDT meetings either really. Or when he is supervising his junior. He’s not taking OP for a ride and all these comments saying he can , well these people would be the first ones complaining if their surgeon had to leave a consult to pick up the DC from a play date. He can however outsource some of his childminding responsibilities for when he’s clearly not available

This is ridiculous. The consultant is an employee and is entitled to annual leave, study leave sick leave and yes, carer’s leave. So yes, in a family emergency, like anyone else, will go to get their child. They are an employee with employees rights.

Then perhaps this isn't the job for you.

Have you not read the PPs response? Read the room.

The difference is that presumably in the case of annual leave/sick leave/preplanned dependents' leave they will have someone covering their workload so patients aren't affected. Not so in the case of "I just need to pop off and collect little Johnny from nursery because there's nobody else to do it".

I have every sympathy with your plight but it won't be because of childcare issues, the most common problem is lack of beds for adequate post-operative care. This has been a problem for decades. I think it was Margaret Thatcher who determinedly reduced the number of beds available in the NHS. This has just declined more and more over time whilst the population increases. It's sad all round.

There are plenty of families where both parents are surgeons/GPs/another kind of super skilled high level healthcare role. Both work full time. They have nannies and au pairs and after school clubs and a support network. I see it all the time.

99% of the time the situation you're referring to is that the wife has been the one that's wanted kids most, has a rosy idea in her head of a stay at home mum baking fresh bread while listening to her children happily play in the garden, they can afford for her not to work, then she realises stay at home parenting 24/7 is hell and not the social media dream, they've chosen to live out in the middle of nowhere so there's nothing to do and everywhere is hell and hassle to get to all the time, then they get divorced and she's resentful and blames everyone else. Unless she was forced into marriage, those decisions were all 50/50. I'm sure she was happy to take the money and have the lifestyle.

so handsomely rewarded that have been forced to strike for a year as the government has eroded pay far more than literally everyone else in the unlicensed sector.
lots of the good will… is gone

I am not saying he can, but I and others are saying that this is HIS problem to solve, not the OP's.

Lets flip it. The OP is the consultant surgeon and he has a 9-5. He says "No, your time your problem" if the there is an issue with the kids. So MN would be falling over themselves with "can you go part time?" "Apply for flexible working" "Hire a nanny, au pair" etc ad infinitum. And the OP would.

Point is that the OP would find a way to make it work, as do single mother nurses, consultants, midwives, GP's, ODP's or any on call medical professionals.

But when it is the man with the Big Job everyone is saying that she must still facilitate his career because ....SURGEON!!!! And? As far as I was aware , FATHER trumps that.

Fact is that this arsehole has got so used to the OP being his fall back that it hasnt crossed his mind that she doesnt have to do that any more if they are divorcing.

Cant help wondering why the divorce is happening.......

Junior doctors. Not consultants. Different kettle of fish entirely.

It's alright to say "perhaps this isn't the job for you" but who is going to take over from her? You??? Surgeons are humans like everyone else so they will also be subject to illness and bereavement just as much as someone who works 9am to 5pm in an office.

But that’s what a family emergency is - kid is sick, have to get them.
not pre planned.
it happens. To everyone who is a parent. That includes consultants and surgeons and yes we leave to go to our sick children.

Yes, they will. During which time someone else will be doing the operations/taking the clinics and the patients won't be left high and dry.

Not sure which bit of that is difficult.