Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

[Noicant]

I was looking at the list of 18 demands from Muslim Vote to Labour and on that list they had

18. Remove the archaic 'spiritual influence' offence from statute.'

I’m not being funny but they want clergy to be able to direct how people vote. Please tell me Labour are going to just ignore this, I’m not sure that many people want their Imam telling them how to vote either, I know if I were Muslim I’d just ignore him.

I have no particular strong feelings about the Israel stuff, it’s to be expected from the group but that one surprised me a bit.

I'm not idealistic or uninformed and don't have an agenda by saying this - but stop with the Islamophobia. It helps no one.

You can disagree with aspects of a religion but those kind of blanket statements are not even remotely ok. It's also incredibly disrespectful.

Kind regards,
A pro-Israel Jew who has made numerous enemies of various MNetters on the conflict in middle east board

Bonkers demand though, OP. We should be teaching critical thinking at schools instead so people can learn how to make their own informed decisions.

Really shocking to see the Islamophobia from some posters on this thread. Especially the claim that "Islam is deeply antisemitic ". That is bullshit.

Why do you think this?

Really? I can't see any posters on this thread disagreeing with the OP and saying "I think that the spiritual influence clause is outdated and should be repealed: priests of all religions should be free to tell their parishioners that it's their god-ordained duty to vote for X"

People are talking around the issue: because they have more interesting things to say as well as YABU/YANBU.

you know there are places that aren't East London don't you?

It’s appalling, I don’t want the god bothers of any stripe encouraging any of their funny ideas about abortions, gay people etc etc.

But I concede for the religious there are things they consider to be important to their faith and they can vote how they like. The problem is when priests use it to say “if you vote this way you are sinning and you know what happens to sinners.” What if your priest takes a view on taxation, economic/political alliances, is it the word of god you are hearing or the word of whatever person runs your place of worship?

I think entryism is an issue, people may have different views on momentum for example but they did hi-jack Labour pretty well for a bit. I’m not sure thats where the bulk of traditional Labour party voters are. See also militant. Or TRA’s and well everything.

Small groups can be pretty insidious and unseen by most people until a bit of legislation pops up somewhere or guidance changes due to special interest groups and you had no idea there was even a discussion being had. Learned that lesson the hard way over the last few years. It’s always some well meaning fool in the civil service/government/political party/ NHS helping out.

To be clear I am not talking about Muslims as a group, I’m talking about this specific campaigning group of people.

I really don’t want to see sectarian politics. It’s toxic wherever it’s found for everyone involved. The group has called this list demands in exchange for votes basically. Who are they to guarantee votes to a political party!?

I don't think many people want sectarian politics, but like others I find the prejudices towards Islam disturbing. Just as not all Christians hold the same views, nor do most Muslims.

Meanwhile, various Islamic lobbyist groups are working hard to bring a blasphemy law indirectly into practice in the UK.

Please explain @Teentaxidriver

Even the adoption of the definition of Islamaphobia https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4794543/APPG+Definition+of+Islamophobia.pdf/f747d5e0-b4e2-5ba6-b4c7-499bd102d5aa
they want is a bit ridiculous. It includes not saying that Islam was spread by the sword or subjugation of minority groups under their rule. Thats just historical fact, thats not an insult. I wouldn’t hold it against any muslim person living today anymore than I would slavery against a white briton. It happened, no-one alive today is responsible for it.

I think Labour have already adopted it, some very reasonable points in there but some of it is just silly and is a free speech/matter of opinion issue. Theres talk of Labour integrating it into equalities legislation.

I really bloody hope not...

Where in East London?

Looks like we’re going to get these threads more and more in the run up to the election. Tory HQ working overtime. Desperate to do the Muslim = antisemitism = Labour.

It won’t work this time. The majority of the British public will not be basing their vote on the Middle East, no matter how much American funded think tanks backed by Evangelists, Republicans and small state Libertarians want it. Keep your culture war bullshit. It’s so transparent that I’m cringing.

It is the faux naive threads that are the worst.

The group @Noicant is talking about has fewer than 3k followers on Twitter and hardly anyone had heard of it until today.

I reckon Count Binface has more political clout.

Time for Labour to remember who they stand for. They stand for every working person of whatever background. They need to focus on common values we can all agree on. Giving in to minority interest groups on issues that are detrimental to the wider society is not protecting the poor and those in need of help. It's just
Creating divisions.

I mean - KS needs the votes so he’ll probably agree to it… I don’t think he has a choice now. So. Ummmm - yes. Get ready for the spiritual leaders to tell us how to vote. Waiting on the Pope myself here….

The votes of whom? The votes of a tiny lobby group like this one will make no difference.

Labour's win in the West Midlands would suggest that KS does not need the votes of every single Muslim in the UK. Therefore they certainly wouldn't need the support of a tiny fringe group. So much scaremongering on this thread.

I find advanced search is coming in very handy these days...

Its the same people popping up every time - often getting deleted but they just keep trying.

You’re spot on. I think we should be incredibly concerned that if/when Labour get into power they will introduce this as a hate crime. No one, nor group should ever be exempt from criticism.

It includes not saying that Islam was spread by the sword or subjugation of minority groups under their rule

Hmm that is not quite what the APPG document linked to says. It says:

Using the symbols and images associated with classic Islamophobia (e.g. Muhammed being a paedophile, claims of Muslims spreading Islam by the sword or subjugating minority groups under their rule) to characterize Muslims as being ‘sex groomers’, inherently violent or incapable of living harmoniously in plural societies.

I don't know why I am bothering, though. It will make no difference.