Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

[Noicant]

I was looking at the list of 18 demands from Muslim Vote to Labour and on that list they had

18. Remove the archaic 'spiritual influence' offence from statute.'

I’m not being funny but they want clergy to be able to direct how people vote. Please tell me Labour are going to just ignore this, I’m not sure that many people want their Imam telling them how to vote either, I know if I were Muslim I’d just ignore him.

I have no particular strong feelings about the Israel stuff, it’s to be expected from the group but that one surprised me a bit.

"How mainstream terrorism has become" don't worry dear, when it's a non-Muslim carrying out terrorist activities it will still be because the poor dear had mental heath issues. Nothing to see.

It looks that way. After all Labour mayors were elected last week in areas with very high Muslim populations.

Is it racist to not want hard line Islamists putting undue pressure on UK lawmakers? Gosh, that’s handy

YABU due to use of "I'm not being funny" which is a wanky expression.

who is demanding this?
Again, it'll be a small group thinking they can represent Muslims. There are lots of Muslims who hate Khan and vote conservative too.

In every religion, you get the far-right ideology. I'm Muslim (background) live in an area in London heavily condensed with muslim population and I never hear from muslims what I read online. Majority are ordinary people in their host country getting on their lives like you and me.

Just because you read something from a particular group does not mean the majority think the same.

Even as a muslim I will never agree with everything a muslim does or says. In fact, you should just follow the book and not bat shit crazy people who hide under religion. There is no way any political party will buckle under that demand. It is unreasonable and no one group should be able to wield that much power.

it’s only an anti-islam thread if muslims actually approve of the idea of Imams using their influence to direct how people vote. I’m not criticising Islam or Muslims I’m criticising a group purporting to represent Muslims in the UK.

I would think most muslims think their vote is their own to do what they wish with. I mean if you do think priests of all religions should be able to tell people how to vote then fine but you should probably just say that.

I do also think it’s worth a discussion, Labour are likely to the next government and understanding what people want from them and whether they plan to concede to any demands is pretty important.

I hope you’re right, though I am born and bred in one of these towns and have experienced it somewhat differently.

Religion has no place whatsoever in the laws and governance of a civilised society.

Yeah I don’t think they represent people as a whole which you can see from my posts.

It’s a good job Starmer has a backbone like an iron rod then eh? 😉

So was I
Funny how people turn out differently isnt it?

Objecting to attempts by a religious group to interfere with the running of the law and government is not a phobia of any sort it is rational thinking.
Calling this “islamophobia” in this instance is akin to shrieks of bigot about women wanting safe spaces and protection of their rights from men who now say they are women.
We can’t be too frightened of being accused of non existent bigotry to protect ourselves and separation of church and state.

No, of course it’s not racist not to want extremists (of any political or religious persuasion) influencing politics. But using expressions like ‘one of their own’ definitely is racist or, in this instance, Islamophobic.

It’s an unreasonable demand. Of course it is. It would be unreasonable no matter what the religious beliefs of the people making it. But the second you start using language like that, any sane, sensible person switches off, because you are making yourself sound just as much of an extremist (in the same mould as Tommy Robinson) as the individuals making the demand.

Pretty sure this is a tiny fringe group, being pumped up by the right wing press. I googled "Muslim Vote for Labour" and the only thing I found were stories in the Daily Mail and Telegraph about "Muslim Group's Outrageous Demands".

So yes, it's a terrible demand that reflects extremely badly on the group making it, but it's been presumably cherry picked for coverage for that particular purpose.

These are people who have been elected, not tiny fringe groups.

Who exactly are they?

I would also object to any religious interference with elections and I dont believe that doing so is racist or Islamaphobic at all just as I believe that keeping men out of womens spaces isn't Transphobic at all.
What I do think is racist/Islamaphobic is some of the hyperbole and rhetoric that goes with it and the way that some people and some sections of the media try to use every single thing that any muslim does to claim that "they" are taking over and we will all be walking round in Burkhas and they way that any wrong doing by a Muslim is evidence of them all being a certain way.
Muslims are a diverse group and yes there are extremists just like with any religion or political group. Just because there are extremists (who are often the most vocal) its no reason to claim that ALL Muslims are to be feared and that there is some great plot to create a caliphate here

Yes, who are they and who voted for them?

Most Muslims do not want to be told how to vote and would not appreciate this at all.

I agree. I think this group is doing muslims no favours as their demand to get their own views imposed on the country plays into the hands of racists everywhere but far worse is that this type of action starts to sway people who have either been ambivalent or supportive of multiculturalism.
Yes of course there are extremists in all groups and religions who don’t represent all members but people remember that the worst terrorist incidents in this country of recent times have been from extremist islam groups and we see on the news how extreme islam regimes treat their citizens, especially women. Therefore people are hyper vigilant at what they perceive as any attempt to change the UK towards religious rule.

They are offering to support candidates who align with their views.

https://themuslimvote.co.uk/

The Muslim Vote demands1. Apologise for your comments greenlighting a genocide and for not backing the ceasefire in Oct/Nov 2023

1. Sanctions on companies operating in occupied territories. Sanctions on settlers
2. Recognise Palestine as a state
3. Travel ban on all Israeli politicians that prosecuted this war and support the illegal occupation
4. End military ties with Israel
5. Issue guidance that Muslims are allowed to pray at school
6. Implement findings of people’s review of Prevent — not Shawcross
7. Remove the “extremism” definition that [Michael] Gove introduced
8. Commit to full implementation of Royal Charter re media regulation

10. Adopt the APPG definition of Islamophobia 11. Commit to a review of public sector equality duty 12. Increase council and public health funding for the 10% most deprived areas in the country to finally address systemic and chronic health inequities as detailed in the Marmot Review and revisited by the Health Foundation 10 years later 13. Deliver alternative student finance 14. Ensure Sharia-compliant pensions are available at every workplace, so the one third of Muslims without a pension get one 15. Ensure insurance quotes don’t cost more for someone called “Muhammad” 16. Commit 7 per cent of the local government pension scheme/public sector pensions to ethical and Islamic funds 17. Oppose BDS bill. Kick it out of law 18. Remove the archaic “spiritual influence” offence from statute

@Noicant This will be down to selection procedures in constituencies. I believe Labour should select on openly transparent principles and not bow to religious groups. Of any type. Would we be ok with CofE demanding a set of actions in reward for support? Or Jewish people? I suspect not. We have our set of values and hopefully a Labour government will make policy and laws for the majority. Labour appears to tread a careful line and not upset anyone but the Middle East clearly is divisive. It’s inevitable some groups are demanding policy changes to favour them, but the Muslim vote seems to like Reform in some areas. Labour should stick to what Labour principles are.

I have no objection to faiths or listening to their views, but they go too far when it’s blatant interference with political parties and this feels like coercion. Not on.

They have a website and send out emails if you subscribe. Part of a recent one:

What TMV Does As a reminder to folks:

TMV seeks to dramatically change the Muslim situation of electoral weakness into a position of strength over the next three election cycles.

We do this by:

Upskilling our community
Being coordinated and united about our vote.

We don’t care if you are a Mad Mamluk or a Thinking Muslim - all are welcome here.

Apparently the mad mamluks have a YouTube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMadMamluks
As does the Thinking Muslim
https://www.youtube.com/@TheThinkingMuslim

It’s going to be an interesting time for Labour and I think it’s going to really test where their loyalties lie.
Much of Islam is very conservative- eg rights of women, homosexuality. I wonder how Labour will respond?

This shouldn't even get publicity because it's quite ridiculous. I'll bet the majority of Muslims haven't even ever heard of them.

It just occurred to me that they asked for demand 18 because they believe people will actually vote as instructed, otherwise what would be the point. Thats a bit chilling.