Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

[Noicant]

I was looking at the list of 18 demands from Muslim Vote to Labour and on that list they had

18. Remove the archaic 'spiritual influence' offence from statute.'

I’m not being funny but they want clergy to be able to direct how people vote. Please tell me Labour are going to just ignore this, I’m not sure that many people want their Imam telling them how to vote either, I know if I were Muslim I’d just ignore him.

I have no particular strong feelings about the Israel stuff, it’s to be expected from the group but that one surprised me a bit.

Well it should, in the same way that any other group of nutters should be exposed to the light of day before some twat in a political party thinks they should be really listening to them because they “represent” people.

You see it with TRA’s as well, one day you wake up and theres a bloke on your womens rugby team and everyones acting like it’s fine and you didn’t even know it was something you should be concerned about.

Some of the things in that list are quite reasonable. Others are batshit. I can't see any political party caving to number 18.

https://x.com/artemisfornow/status/1786688318505201731?s=46

He seems nice. When do you think he’ll sort out the potholes? 😳

Not necessarily. The argument would be that a clause originally intended to criminalise dodgy village vicars (the original wording dates back centuries) is now being weaponised against innocent Muslim candidates to stifle legitimate political debate in mosques.

Personally I strongly agree with the retention of the clause, and think that arguing for its removal is dodgy, but it's not an out and out admission of guilt.

As a Muslim I vote for who I want. Never in my life or friends and family have I witnessed anyone asking or being told by an imam who to vote for.

Didn't even know this was a thing.

Presuming you live in the UK which is a safe democracy and you enjoy the freedoms that allows?

I haven't read all the threads but I'm Muslim and to be quite honest and frank with you all, imams 99% of the time will never tell you who and who not to vote for. The ones who do I'm not quite sure what the MO is. When I say this is a very tiny tiny bunch of people who are probably asking for this I mean TINY. Imams don't have political agendas regardless of what any other mumsnetter on here thinks/wants others to think. Please stop painting them all with the same brush.

@peanutbuttertoasty yes. That's what I'm saying. Whoever these people are are not the majority. I have never even heard of this or wanted it.

Oh come on now, stop being reasonable. It hardly helps with the rabid clickbait does it?

This piece explains some of the background. Giles Fraser is against the law, but there's no doubt that the imams in question did advocate voting for Rahman.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/lutfur-rahman-tower-hamlets-mayor-verdict-undue-spiritual-influence

I can see both sides of this.

On the one hand I don't think it's a good message to give out that it's OK for religious leaders to tell their flock how to vote. I know it does happen eg in Tower Hamlets. But it undermines democracy, we are lucky to have a private ballot, many countries don't and it's always the most marginalised (eg women) who come under the most pressure on how to vote.

On the other hand, Muslim Vote are perfectly within their rights to make demands of the Party they support if they feel that Party has lost sight of their interests. Especially the Muslim vote which has historically been very pro-Labour. Why shouldn't they be vocal about what they want? I respect that. That's a healthy function of democracy. I am gender critical and I wish GC women had done the same when Labour was first going down the self-ID route.

So true @Hoppinggreen can't let everyone think we are normal people. 😅🤣

Of course not all Muslims want Islamic laws in the UK. That’s not the point. It’s the ones who do that matter. Things are shifting, which naturally causes alarm.

Apparently so.

What are you saying exactly?

Jesus and all the gods, please bless some common sense on all those who eat massive salads, earn six figures, hide behind sofas and have cheating husbands on secret hobbies.

Oh Jesus christ are you really going to go with the racist trope of the great replacement theory?

Britain would be a much better place if we shipped all the racists off to Rwanda, after all its a safe country, right?

All those that rightly disagree with a religious body having influence on politics think that the house of Lords having bishops sitting is equally as egregious

I lived in Whitechapel near Brick Lane when George Galloway was MP and Lutfur Rahman was elected mayor of Tower Hamlets.
So forgive me for being biased when I say those demands are the "Thin ends of various wedges"
What they win won't matter. What will matter is that people start to feel that the Muslims have achieved something, they have pressured the Labour Party and won a concession. That is the start of a movement that becomes a Party.

If you had an Islamist agenda and a reasonable brain would you:

a) attempt to influence a major existing political party towards your agenda.
b) start your own political party.

Obviously a) would be your first choice because being in possession of a reasonable brain you would have noted that the Christian People's Alliance, a socially conservative religious party, currently have 0 MPs and 0 councillors. The Muslim People's Alliance would probably not do much better.

"the muslims"

It's not 'bloody scary'. It is a political group stating the terms on which they would be prepared to support Labour. It appears they have included on their list something that not many people would be in favour of and which the Labour Party is unlikely to support. I think you will find that small groups make unpopular and unsuccessful demands all the time, based on their own values and positions. That is, er, democracy.

Whilst I don't think any one with any religious belief can now be true to their faith and vote Tory, the cause in the said act should stay. And no doubtless will.

I asked on another thread who would be on the scapegoat roundabout this week to detract from the shit the Tories are in.

Sorry Muslim folk, it is your turn. Again.

Yes, dear.