DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

[maay]

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

Looks as if he has been slowly and subtly messing with the boundaries, the lap sitting stuff made my alarm bells go off. That in my opinion was him really testing the waters to see how you are going to react.

Stop the contact. Worst case scenario - you look overprotective and people get defensive. It'll blow over. Best case scenario - you've saved your daughter from rape.

Seems like a no brainer.

I like the suggestion from @zanahoria 'you sound like Jimmy Savile!'

the gift of fear comes to mind. Trust your gut here OP. You can NEVER be too careful. Once it’s done it’s done for life. I’d rather offend someone than take that risk

This reminds me very much of the Danielle Jones case to be honest. I could be being unfair but I would feel uncomfortable too.

Trust your instincts.

Adult men can be sexually attracted to adolescent girls.

And the other way round - when I was 12 all the posters on my walls were of singers and actors in their 30s, not the more appropriate boy bands. Much as we don't like to think about it, 12 is a very aware age.

She has a crush and he knows it and is enjoying it.

She sat on his lap - this is not something that would happen for the first time suddenly in front of everyone. They are both used to this. Men like this because her bum is in contact with his cock. (Sorry.)

The presents and the compliments and the time alone together doing something rather romantic; making music together??

Grooming happens in full daylight - and the families get groomed, too.

Her safety comes first. Put a stop to this now.

This. Don't be scared of upsetting anyone OP because the other possible scenario is so much worse.

My dad was a very odd man, the way he abused me was through spying on me while I was undressing, by a fair bit of verbal stuff, by ignoring me and then lavishing me with "affection". One of his things was forcing me to sit on his lap way past the age I felt comfortable with, up to about 14/15 years old, I loathed it, was aware that it was "off" but felt powerless to make it stop. To me it is a red flag . nothing overtly sexual but lots of subtle stuff that messes with boundaries and is also an assertion of power.

I am so sorry 😞

Thats an opinion. I don't believe there's a set age for these things to stop. Its my opinion that if I trusted a family member then I wouldn't have an issue with my CHILD sitting on their lap. If I didn't trust the family member then nothing would be happening with them, including sitting in the same room, let alone lap.

I was young in the 70's and it was open season on young girls and women. It just seen as something you had to put up with and we all had numerous strategies for dealing with vile groping leering men. Nobody listened, it was just considered being part and parcel of being female, shocking when I look back

There were some posts that suggested at 12 they stop this altogether.

Sounded fine till the last two paragraphs - then my stomach dropped. Trust your instincts. Maybe he's a decent guy genuinely enjoying passing on skills but the lap thing is pretty odd on it's own without the creepy comment - I'd can this arrangement sharpish.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I won't be just ignoring it and will be having a chat with DD. It's hard to tell if it's a "cool uncle" situation or something bad. So need to feel things out in a way that isn't going to scar her but will protect her. To answer a few questions and comments...

A crush is possible. He is 32 and conventionally attractive. Dresses trendy etc. However she rarely mentions crushes, but when she does they are boys (like teenagers max) that are celebs or influencers.

When he made the Asian girls comment, I replied with "all races are beautiful" as "a most beautiful race" isn't a message I want her to learn. The only reason I mentioned race here is because of his comment on her looks. He's white and follows a lot of Anime stuff. Which can be innocent, but it can be problematic...if you know, you know. I'm white, so not bashing all white men or anything.

The guitar lessons are in a different room. The "middle room." DH and I usually leave them to it in there. I won't be allowing lessons without being in the room anymore.

Before the lessons, their relationship was different. They still got on well, he bought her something nice for birthdays and holidays. He didn't buy her stuff in between though and he wouldn't have randomly invited her out (the band.) He's also been spending more time here in general. Offering to do nice things for me and DH to help us out. That wouldn't have happened before, unless there was a rare specific reason.

DD also talks about him a lot..."uncle loves this song, uncle said red grapes are better than green, so I want them instead. Uncle would find this funny". Stuff of that nature.

She has probably reached the right age for his interest to be sparked.

You say he's your step brother.
What are your ages? Is there a difference between his and your age?
How old were you when your parents got together?
You say you were close - do you remember anything yourself from back then?
As in - does he have a habit?

“Alternatively, you could "level" with your brother and confess that you think she has a little crush and could he very firmly discourage her. That means if he is grooming he knows you are on to him and if he is completely innocent he is aware of the problem and should take steps to make sure he is not alone with her or letting her behave in an inappropriate fashion.”

I think this is the approach I would take.

He's white and follows a lot of Anime stuff.

Nope. That's another red flag. There is innocent anime but there is a LOT of really dark stuff.

He's also been spending more time here in general. Offering to do nice things for me and DH to help us out.

Another really red flag.

Very strong boundaries and a lot of good messaging. I'd find a way to stop the lessons but I used to be a SW. I know CSA is common and happens all the time. I know a lot of people don't think that's true.

A couple of alarm bells for me - he should not allow her to sit on his lap - any adult with clear boundaries would understand this is not okay.

You say he is into anime - sorry but for me I hear 'adult man and anime' and I think PORN. He may well be watching young girls/ cartoon/ anime porn.

I would let him know very clearly you are watching him - say - 'hey - its so nice you guys hang out but obviously I have to set some really specific rules for her and don't want her getting confused. I have told her not to be alone with adult men - so - Im going to have to include you in this rule too'

wont offend him if he is innocent - will warn him off if he is not innocent.

Absolutely DO NOT tell this men - who you have some suspicions about - that your daughter has a crush on him.

What an f-ing terrible idea.

She is clearly being groomed. I would -

• Make a Sarah's Law request
• Stop all guitar lessons
• Tell Uncle you are stopping guitar lessons as his behaviour is inappropriate, he will deny it and say you are being crazy but so what.
• Tell Uncle not to contact your DD on the phone again and tell him you have made a Sarah's Law request.
• Find another guitar teacher.
• Explain to DD that you think her Uncle was grooming her, so lessons are being stopped and he has been told not to contact her by phone. Tell her you have talked to police about this (you have Sarah's Law) and if he contacts her to let you know asap. She may think you are being OTT, or be a bit relieved, or a bit of both.
• Never leave DD alone if he is at a family gathering.

I would go in hard ball. He needs to know you will protect your DD fully and DD needs to know this is an appropriate response to a man grooming child.

Exactly! Shocking idea.

He sounds very iffy.

He is not just iffy. He is grooming you OP and your DD so he can sexually abuse and maybe rape her. It really is 101 grooming plan.
Remember what he wants to do to your child to give you the strength to do what is necessary.

I agree. I can't believe some people think that is a good idea.

There are a lot of alarm bells adding up OP, I'd also be worried. A doting uncle from day one is great, but a sudden interest as she becomes a teenager, combined with his comments on Asian women, the lap thing, and finding lots of excuses for more contact, is concerning.

There's an adult nspcc helpline you could call in confidence OP, maybe talk things through with them?