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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

415 replies

maay · 07/05/2024 00:35

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

OP posts:
PenguinLord · 07/05/2024 17:52
  1. It's a shame some hobbies are so stigmatised, there is nothing wrong with male of female of any age watching anime- OP does not seem to have any knowledge of it. It's a very diverse medium, not a genre as such. Thumbs down to OP for narrow mindedness.
  2. That being said, the uncle clearly overstept boundaries and this needs to be addressed with him as well directly.
0sm0nthus · 07/05/2024 17:55

All the things he is doing to make her feel as if she is older than she is, he's treating her as if she is his girlfriend, she is bound to be hugely flattered by this, he wants her to idolise him and trust him completely.

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 17:57

Fingeronthebutton · 07/05/2024 17:31

By you saying that he was completely comfortable with her sitting on his lap shows that it’s not the first time 😱
Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him.

Show quote history

Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him.

It's sad that in the era of Me Too we will assign the blame on the female rather than the male and adult at that, being the responsible person for all this. OP the only one responsible here is your step brother. We should talk to girls about the grooming process but yet again women/girls are the ones having to change rather than hold men and adults to account.

Cherrysoup · 07/05/2024 18:05

Quiet word with him re not saying particular races are the most beautiful and no more taking her out/offering merch etc, it’s just now somewhat suspicious, isn’t it? And she doesn’t get to ask for stuff in front of him, possibly innocent but also she knows he’s bought her loads of stuff, so….Certainly no more being alone together and tough if she whinges. Also quiet word with her re inappropriate behaviour eg sitting on his knee. It’s odd that she doesn’t sit on anyone else, kind of sticks out, that one.

0sm0nthus · 07/05/2024 18:06

If someone behaved like that with my 12 y/o daughter I'd want to beat the sh1t out of him.
SHAME ON YOU😡 @Fingeronthebutton for this:
'Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him'

SluggyMuggy · 07/05/2024 18:07

Framing this as a crush is a dangerous framing. The DD is being groomed. Responding positively at this stage to being groomed is normal. The DD is in the love bombing stage of being groomed. That does not make it a crush, even if superficially her behaviour looks like one.

KTSl1964 · 07/05/2024 18:07

Yes definitely guitar lessons in an open room.
it maybe innocent but he shouldn’t be buying her gifts for no reason.
Stay switched on.m

Branleuse · 07/05/2024 18:33

I think hes probably a creepy uncle. Theres enough of them about

VerasChips · 07/05/2024 18:38

Fingeronthebutton · 07/05/2024 17:31

By you saying that he was completely comfortable with her sitting on his lap shows that it’s not the first time 😱
Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him.

Show quote history

Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him.

No it fucking isn’t.

Children growing up in normal healthy environments DO NOT get ‘big crushes’ on their family. Or small crushes. Or fancy them in anyway.

heathspeedwell · 07/05/2024 18:43

Sadly yet another person here saying trust your instincts. I have lived experience of step uncles.

samqueens · 07/05/2024 18:47

This has probably and hopefully already been said and I’m afraid I haven’t been able to read the whole thread, but just in case it helps with the conversation you have with her - secrets are the biggest red flag because people who groom children eventually ask them to keep a secret. So make sure you let her know that if any adult or anyone in a position of authority etc EVER asks her to keep a secret about ANYTHING that is a red flag and she a) should immediately be wondering why and b) shouldn’t do that because secrets are a form of control etc etc.

Good luck

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 07/05/2024 18:53

newyear2024 · 07/05/2024 14:51

What was his reaction when she sat on his lap? I know my husband would have leapt of the chair or visibly being uncomfortable and stood up. But if my daughter did this in front of me my first reaction would be 'what are you doing' I would have verbally asked both of them and told them it was weird, but then I am up front and say things as they are happening, rather than go away and think about it from all angles

I honestly can't imagine how anyone can just sit in the same room and not instantly have a "wtf" reaction.

As a PP said her bum is in contact with his cock.

mydamnfootstuckinthedoor · 07/05/2024 18:59

It's all happening right under your nose. If you feel uncomfortable, DO SOMETHING! It sounds very much as if she has a little crush on him because he is giving her so much attention. I'd be warning him rather than her - she is too young to really understand what she is doing.

Friedchickenrocks · 07/05/2024 19:03

mydamnfootstuckinthedoor · 07/05/2024 18:59

It's all happening right under your nose. If you feel uncomfortable, DO SOMETHING! It sounds very much as if she has a little crush on him because he is giving her so much attention. I'd be warning him rather than her - she is too young to really understand what she is doing.

I'd hardly say she was too young at 12. Maybe at 6 or 7 yes.

Loveydoveyduck · 07/05/2024 19:07

You need to trust your own instincts OP. I would feel highly uncomfortable for my 12 year old daughter to sit in anyone's lap. Bit weirded out by the comment he made also!

SquirrelMadness · 07/05/2024 19:08

Stop the guitar lessons and any other contact when you are not present immediately. Don't do the nanny camera or continuing lessons in a more open room. You don't need any more evidence and once you see something happen it will already have damaged your daughter.

Don't continue the lessons in your presence either - what happens if you need the loo?

We spend so much time worrying about offending the opinions of men. He likely already knows that his behaviour is inappropriate, especially the comment about beautiful Asian girls.

Protecting your daughter from serious and lasting harm is the most important priority here. Hopefully you have already caught this before it harms your daughter, don't risk it progressing by allowing the contact to continue.

slore · 07/05/2024 19:14

Yeah this "uncle" is being inappropriate.

Buying gifts for the targeted child and charming her, and ingratiating himself with the parents (favours and free lessons) are classic grooming behaviours.

The biggest red thing paedophiles do when they groom is to gently push boundaries in front of the parents. This shows them what they can get away with, desensitizes the parents, and demonstrates to the targeted child that these behaviours (lap-sitting, racially fetishistic comments) are ok because her parents didn't make a fuss. It also gently wears down the boundaries of the child.

Your daughter is obviously responsive to his charms and thinks a lot of him. It's working on her, which was his intention.

She's in a lot of danger and you need to put a stop to it. You also need to reinforce to your daughter that these behaviours weren't appropriate so that she develops good judgement about what is normal for adult men and underage girls.

Ohnobackagain · 07/05/2024 19:14

@maay she probably has a bit of a crush and he is unsure what to do for example when she sat on his lap. I think you speaking up then to DD would be good. Could you just keep the door open during lessons and pop in once or twice with water/snacks? There was another PP who said his response if you say she shouldn’t sit on his lap would be key … I agree.

velvetydogtoy · 07/05/2024 19:14

Bloody hell OP - alarm bells ringing everywhere here. I won't read the thread as it will be full of paedophile groomer apologists - these threads always are - but NEVER let your daughter be alone with him again. Tell him to stop the gifts and the inappropriate comments and as for the sitting on the knee? A decent man would have gently moved her off - he didn't though did he?

Keep her safe. Trust your instincts and protect your little girl.

velvetydogtoy · 07/05/2024 19:15

slore · 07/05/2024 19:14

Yeah this "uncle" is being inappropriate.

Buying gifts for the targeted child and charming her, and ingratiating himself with the parents (favours and free lessons) are classic grooming behaviours.

The biggest red thing paedophiles do when they groom is to gently push boundaries in front of the parents. This shows them what they can get away with, desensitizes the parents, and demonstrates to the targeted child that these behaviours (lap-sitting, racially fetishistic comments) are ok because her parents didn't make a fuss. It also gently wears down the boundaries of the child.

Your daughter is obviously responsive to his charms and thinks a lot of him. It's working on her, which was his intention.

She's in a lot of danger and you need to put a stop to it. You also need to reinforce to your daughter that these behaviours weren't appropriate so that she develops good judgement about what is normal for adult men and underage girls.

Excellent post.

Pineconepicture · 07/05/2024 19:16

Up until I was 13 or 14 I would still occasionally, very occasionally, sit on my dads lap. Until someone called social services and reported that we had an 'inappropriate relationship' and they were concerned. Was horrible, and made me feel weird about hugging my dad for a long time afterwards even though there was no reason to be.

But this person didn't know us well, you know your daughter and the situation. So yes trust your instincts, but I guess using my experience alone I'd support the fact you're going about this tactfully. Because if it is innocent and handled badly it could really mess up how people feel about how they're acting around each other.

velvetydogtoy · 07/05/2024 19:18

Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him

FFS. I KNEW that I shouldn't have started reading the thread. Comments like this are just plain stupid and show no comprehension of safeguarding.

slore · 07/05/2024 19:18

Friedchickenrocks · 07/05/2024 19:03

I'd hardly say she was too young at 12. Maybe at 6 or 7 yes.

Show quote history

What? Why do you think society doesn't allow tween girls to follow their crushes on adult men?

Of course 12 year old girls don't understand the implications of their crushes. OPs daughter won't know she's being groomed and charmed, and will likely just feel extremely upset that her desires are being thwarted.

SuuzeeeQ · 07/05/2024 19:21

Sounds like he is grooming her. Always trust your instincts OP.

SquirrelMadness · 07/05/2024 19:23

anothermnuser123 · 07/05/2024 17:05

The amount of people suggesting a camera in the room, are people seriously suggesting allowing them more alone time given the circumstances? Even with it being recorded, you cant take back what is done, EVER. That child needs protecting and that means not putting her in ANY situation to be alone with him, camera or not. Why would you risk any more time alone together just to get proof.

I would any time, rather be over protective than put my child at extra harm for the sake of proof. Screw the proof, keep that child away.

The fact he was so comfortable with her on his lap would be more than enough for me, without all the other stuff, that alone is a blaring red flag and anyone that wouldnt act on that alone would seriously concern me. These are our children, seriously dont dangle them as bait so you can be sure, ffs!

This exactly. He's already acting like a perv and a groomer and should know that his actions are inappropriate. The fact that he was so comfortable when a 12yr old girl sat on his knee and the weird comment about Asian girls being beautiful would be enough for me, especially when combined with the gifts, gig etc. He knows what he is doing and should not be allowed any opportunity to escalate.

Predators act slowly, pushing boundaries one by one. Abuse is so common partly because as a society we are conditioned to overlook or explain away the early warning signs.