DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

[maay]

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

I am so sorry to hear that.

Always trust your instincts. I'm in the medical field so do a lot of safeguarding as part of my job. I've not read all the comments here but this is grooming until proven otherwise. The comments, the gifts, the secrecy are really concerning. I would stop all contact with this person until you have a safety plan in place here and have addressed things with your daughter. This is a good age to talk openly about grooming, whether it's sexual or county lines etc. and to ensure safe use of internet. I would be monitoring devices, internet use and giving a, "thank you for the lessons, our daughter has come such a long way that we've booked her in to work with a local guitar teacher" speech to this man. Don't let her go anywhere with him and ensure someone is home when she gets home from school. I would call out any boundary crossing in future clearly and directly with your daughter present e.g. saying firmly exactly what is inappropriate to him.

Have a look at what literature is available on the topic for children of this age. The book 'you don't understand me by Tara porter is pretty good, and there will be others that are equally good.

There's another guide for parents about grooming that I'll copy through too:

https://safelyeverafter.com/prevention/#tab-7fba881c6ed26d5a360

Check in with the school to ask whether they have noticed anything strange in your daughter's behaviour if you need to. Obviously call the police if there is any suspicion of any illegal activity.

You don't need to feel guilty for shutting this down because 'he's nice'. Don't worry about being rude or offending him. Do whatever needs doing to protect your girl. Groomers are often the nicest, most well mannered people you will ever meet as they want to place themselves beyond suspicion. Your instincts are a valuable asset here, trust them.

Go with your gut. I’m not saying anything untoward is going on but it didn’t feel right to you so say something ( the sitting on the lap ) . I would say that is certainly not appropriate.

I actually wouldn’t think the messaging was appropriate really - but , it’s reassuring it’s just memes - however , I agree that you have to be aware of messages being deleted .

It could be that he has no children and he’s enjoying having someone to spoil - I remember when I was younger my cousins boyfriend ( I was about 12 he was about 30 ) was so cool ! He was funny , he used to chat to me about things I was into and would buy me things . They had no children and they would have me for sleepovers and take me out . There was absolutely nothing untoward going on , they just had no children and used to spoil me . So it could well be that!

However , it’s good that you are on the ball with this just in case . It’s sad but we have to , as parents, look out for our children .

I have to say I disagree with the poster who said it’s unlikely to be anything because he wouldn’t do it in front of people - groomers are not always sneaky . Sometimes by being so open they get a false sense of confidence . I would certainly have the chat about what is and isn’t appropriate.

Also - I always tell my children that I can see any messages they delete . I can’t , but I’ve said it before and said “ is there anything you want to tell me because I can check “ this has been innocent things like maybe a bit of swearing but it’s always worked and they have admitted to it .

This is a dangerous stance. Hiding in plain site is a well known tactic with abusers and don't seek comfort that the wife is around too if anyone else suggests that. Trust your gut. You have to as your dd is too young to know all she should yet.

If it was me I'd have to know for sure either way and probably put a camera with sound in the guitar room somewhere he can't see it easily or you will always be unsure.

The amount of people suggesting a camera in the room, are people seriously suggesting allowing them more alone time given the circumstances? Even with it being recorded, you cant take back what is done, EVER. That child needs protecting and that means not putting her in ANY situation to be alone with him, camera or not. Why would you risk any more time alone together just to get proof.

I would any time, rather be over protective than put my child at extra harm for the sake of proof. Screw the proof, keep that child away.

The fact he was so comfortable with her on his lap would be more than enough for me, without all the other stuff, that alone is a blaring red flag and anyone that wouldnt act on that alone would seriously concern me. These are our children, seriously dont dangle them as bait so you can be sure, ffs!

Not something. He's hardly going to grope her in front of you!

This all sounds incredibly off.

Buying her loads of gifts, finding reasons to spend more time with at yours), her boundaries having been eroded so she sits on his lap, him calling her beautiful and her giggling. None of it sits right. I would not let him be alone with her again. And I'd be putting in real boundaries and sticking to them. No more music trips or anything like that with Uncle either.

Ok that’s a bit silly . There are millions of adult male and females that love dragon ball lol .

They do. They know the victim will be afraid to make a fuss. They love to grope their targets when other people are around.

Right?!?!

Why would anyone suggest OP using her daughter as bait??

You don’t need proof of anything to decide who your daughter can or cannot be alone with.

Because if he's not a predator she will be damaged by cutting off / changing the relationship.

If he is a predator it will give OP knowledge of whether he is grooming or already got physical so she knows how to support her DD to heal. It also gives evidence for the police to stop him harming all the other girls he teaches guitar to.

If OP is watching in the other room there is zero chance of any further abuse, but a chance to know what is going on so she can protect her daughter.

Stop it now. So many red flags. If he is innocent then he'll completely understand and feel mortified. Except I don't think he is. My husband would not let a 12 year old girl sit on his knee.

Read up on how to approach this with your daughter so you don't end up being the bad guy and the uncle the understanding "good guy."

@andweallsingalong he is a predator. If you were going to write a grooming case study involving family grooming, what is happening here fits perfectly. It would have fit perfectly as a case study in my safeguarding course to teach people about grooming and how it operates.

I agree with this.

There is also a whole side of it that creates fetishism around asian schoolgirls. He has already said the Asians are beautiful to a 12 year old of Asian desent, who giggled at it, he is comfortable with the same sitting on his lap and there are numerous other red flags through the posts showing he is grooming. So, if you were to guess, which part of the genere do you think you would find on his computer. It's absolutely not silly in the wider context.

The nanny can arguments are similar to those women who say they want proof their husband is cheating because she is not sure, even though he has started working later but there is no extra money, he has bought some trendy clothes and lost weight, he is no longer interested in sex, and the OP found a second hidden mobile phone.
Sometimes the situation is so glaringly obvious you do not need any more proof. You already have it.

Yes that comment was creepy as hell

Seriously? If you are worried that your child was being abused you'd put a camera to catch him rather than never put her in a dangerous position? How about you keep her safe even if it means offending an innocent party. It's not you that would have to live with being abused.

A decent innocent man would understand your concerns and not do anything to upset or concern you. But the child is paramount here. No one else.

But not all. I take your point but mine needs taking too.

By you saying that he was completely comfortable with her sitting on his lap shows that it’s not the first time 😱
Im sorry to say that it’s obvious your daughter has a big crush on him.

My first instinct is that something feels ‘off’. It may turn out to be nothing but you’ve mentioned enough that this needs looking into. It certainly can’t hurt to ask DD/Uncle more about this situation.

You had a point?

Wow.

Even if she does have a crush it is all his making. He is making her feel special with the time, attention and gifts. He says her look is beautiful, he offers to buy something her parents said no to, takes her to concerts, teaches her a new skill, let's her sit on his lap. Of course she is going to have feelings in this situation. That's how it works for him, isn't it.