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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I really don’t think I ABU but everyone thinks otherwise - AIBU?

350 replies

Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 11:12

I am quite used to always being seen as ‘at fault’ in my family but I am genuinely starting to think maybe I am being unreasonable here so wanted to get external opinions. It’s long so I apologize but I’d really appreciate any input.

backstory -
my brother has ASD (an Asperger’s diagnosis when that was still a thing) and although is very ‘high functioning’ is prone to being selfish, devoid of any empathy and at times violent.

My entire childhood revolved around him, and making sure he wasn’t overwhelmed due to the violent outbursts that would occur.

As he has gotten older the violence has started to become less frequent, but since being with my DH (11 years) he has witnessed 2-3 violent incidents from my brother towards me which has made DH not like my brother at all. He has ASD himself and because he isn’t violent doesn’t think my brother’s diagnosis is an excuse for that behavior. So I try to keep them separate, DH is polite and civil when around my brother but doesn’t enjoy spending time with him (although he does a very good job of masking it, as my brother is under the impression that he and DH are cool)

My brother lives 3 hours drive away from me.

(this is relevant) - additionally 8 years ago my father moved abroad for work and comes back to the UK every 2 years.

Now onto the issue at hand.

In November last year I was told my father was going to come back to the UK to visit for 3 weeks. This would be the first trip back since I had my DS. So it would be his first chance to meet his grandson. He was due to spend 2 weeks with my brother and one week with me.

DHs birthday is also in November and we had planned a city break for a long weekend. The city was about 40 mins away from where my brother lives. So I spoke to DH and said since we had limited time with my father I was thinking about making a detour to have maybe a nice lunch with my brother and dad on the way to the city break. To maximize the time as a family. He said of course as he also misses my dad (they have a great relationship) and wanted DS to get as much time with him as possible. I also hadn’t seen my brother for a few months at this point (as he won’t get a bus or coach to come and see us due to anxiety, and I had a newborn so wasn’t in the mood for 6 hour round trips)

Spoke to my brother, he was excited to see us all, great.

Unfortunately dad had to pull out of the trip due to medical issues a month before coming back. As that would just then leave the afternoon as just me, my brother, DH and DS I cancelled the detour to see my brother on the way to DHs birthday trip. As the only reason we were doing it was to maximize time with my father and tbh I felt bad expecting DH to spend a day around a man he dislikes on his birthday trip.

I understand why my brother is upset with this, but now I am public enemy number 1 in my family for being ‘so cruel’ to him and ‘making him feel like an afterthought’ - quite honestly he was an afterthought, he hasn’t bothered to come and visit us, he has never made the effort to come to me, and is now getting annoyed I wouldn’t do a 40 min detour to see him, I’m apparently a narcissist and almost as awful as Hitler (his words)

I’m not sure if since having DS a lot of trauma from my childhood and having to bend to my brothers will so much is coming up and making me a bit of an asshole, but honestly speaking - in this situation was I being unreasonable? Should I apologize?

OP posts:
Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:06

DoreenonTill8 · 01/05/2024 14:03

That's a yes then, or you're the one who's aggressive in your family, expecting apologies and capitulation when you don't get your way or there's a perceived slight?

Show quote history

If you want to attack my character for having a different opinion to you , (rather than engaging with the substantive points I made), then that perhaps says more about you 🤷🏼‍♀️

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:06

Tandora · 01/05/2024 13:37

I think what you did was cruel and unkind , yes.
you expected your brother to be there when it suited you, but now you’ve made it clear you had no interest in seeing him whatsoever.
extremely bad manners.
back story is irrelevant.
Sorry but if you were my family member I’d think YABU too.

I didn’t expect him to be there

I was going to visit my father

Him being there would have been nice but I didn’t expect him to be there at all

OP posts:
thing47 · 01/05/2024 14:07

@Treaclescourer as a child growing up with your brother you were powerless to alter the dynamic, or even to have a say. As an adult, this is absolutely NOT the case – you get to draw whatever boundaries you wish, and you get to choose who to have a relationship with, and to what degree. That includes with parents and siblings.

It's no one else's business. You should say that to any family member who is trying to blame you or guilt you into doing something you do not wish to do. As for your brother, I'm frankly staggered that you've put up with him for so long, but now you have a baby to worry about you have the perfect excuse not to go and see him.

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:08

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 01/05/2024 13:44

My adhd brother was the same, OP. I grew up having to hide my own needs because his meltdowns were violent and it was so devastating to witness my parents struggling to cope. Taken me years to fully grasp the volatility of my childhood and how it affected me. Even when I had my own place he would move in and take over - I had been groomed to accommodate his overbearing behaviour. I remember being woken up at 5am with the sound of him attempting to strangle his gf and another time of him punching my father. At 14 I had to call the police because I came home from school and he was holding a knife to my Mum’s throat.

I know a lot of people on the ‘spectrum’ and all of them are non violent, good, unique and wonderful people, but my brother’s rage ruled us all and growing up with his unpredictable outbursts - it was tough and my boundaries were all over the place as a result. Therapy might help you to develop some strategies for dealing with your brother and to heal those wounds you inevitably received as a child.

I am sorry you went through such a violent childhood as well.

From reading so many of these replies and even the process of writing the post has highlighted to me that therapy is probably a good idea. I have so much resentment built up under the surface that seems to have come out from having DS, probably because I can now see what my parents did wrong being on the other side of the table so to speak and I’m struggling a bit tbh with that realization.

OP posts:
Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:10

Tandora · 01/05/2024 13:44

Well then she shouldn’t have arranged to see her dad on her brother’s time. In her OP she acknowledges that she hadn’t seen her brother for a while and that was part of the appeal and that she had invited her brother and he was “excited” to see them.

Show quote history

He wasn’t part of the appeal

It was a kill two birds with one stone situation

my brother had been moaning about not having seen me for a while (when he refused to do anything to fix that) and I saw this as an opportunity to pay my ‘dues’ plus spend a bit more time with dad

OP posts:
Lucytheloose · 01/05/2024 14:11

I'm surprised you would be willing to see him at all, to be honest.

roastedrapidly · 01/05/2024 14:12

It is obvious you didn't want to see your brother, but only took the chance to see your dad. He is upset by this, and it seems so are the extended family.

Perhaps now is the chance to tell everyone that you and your DH don't wish to continue a relationship with him and explain the reasons.

Unless of course you do wish to keep the relationship with your brother? If so, cancelling the trip when your dad want available was obviously going to harm relations.

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:14

Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:06

I didn’t expect him to be there

I was going to visit my father

Him being there would have been nice but I didn’t expect him to be there at all

Show quote history

You arranged to see your dad while he was staying with your brother. You invited your brother along. You acknowledge having him there “would be nice” and you partly thought of it because you hadn’t seen him in a few months. You said that your brother was excited to see you.

You were the one who suggested the lunch.

If you don’t want a relationship with your brother because he is a violent man, that’s one thing , and totally your prerogative to set that boundary . but it’s not right to proactively peruse a relationship with your brother one minute , then treat him as valueless/ an inconvenience the next

thing47 · 01/05/2024 14:14

it’s not fair to proactively peruse a relationship one minute , then treat the other person as valueless/ an inconvenience the next.

But this isn't the case. She is proactively pursuing a relationship with her father, not her brother. The latter's presence is largely incidental and OP didn't really mind either way whether brother was there or not.

LifeExperience · 01/05/2024 14:17

Your brother is unreasonable and violent. He can't be around your child.

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:17

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:14

You arranged to see your dad while he was staying with your brother. You invited your brother along. You acknowledge having him there “would be nice” and you partly thought of it because you hadn’t seen him in a few months. You said that your brother was excited to see you.

You were the one who suggested the lunch.

If you don’t want a relationship with your brother because he is a violent man, that’s one thing , and totally your prerogative to set that boundary . but it’s not right to proactively peruse a relationship with your brother one minute , then treat him as valueless/ an inconvenience the next

Edited
Show quote history

I didn’t actively pursue anything

I asked if he was free on that day for lunch as I was coming down to see dad

Thats a polite offer

If he had said no I’d have still gone and had lunch with dad

I suggested lunch with my father, and then extended the invite to my brother out of politeness and to stop him moaning about me never seeing him.

OP posts:
Naunet · 01/05/2024 14:17

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:14

You arranged to see your dad while he was staying with your brother. You invited your brother along. You acknowledge having him there “would be nice” and you partly thought of it because you hadn’t seen him in a few months. You said that your brother was excited to see you.

You were the one who suggested the lunch.

If you don’t want a relationship with your brother because he is a violent man, that’s one thing , and totally your prerogative to set that boundary . but it’s not right to proactively peruse a relationship with your brother one minute , then treat him as valueless/ an inconvenience the next

Edited
Show quote history

but it’s not right to proactively peruse a relationship with your brother one minute , then treat him as valueless/ an inconvenience the next

Then maybe he shouldn’t have treated her in that exact same way but worse, by pushing her down the stairs! Actions have consequences. If you want to be treated with respect, treat others with that same respect.

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:19

thing47 · 01/05/2024 14:14

it’s not fair to proactively peruse a relationship one minute , then treat the other person as valueless/ an inconvenience the next.

But this isn't the case. She is proactively pursuing a relationship with her father, not her brother. The latter's presence is largely incidental and OP didn't really mind either way whether brother was there or not.

But that’s a totally self absorbed perspective . If her brother knew that he was entirely irrelevant in her mind, I doubt he would have been really excited about attending the lunch he was invited to. (As evidenced by the fact that he’s now decided to go no contact after realising how irrelevant he is).

It’s really not ok to treat people as means rather than ends, even if they are violent. They are still people and still have human dignity and worth.

adorablecat · 01/05/2024 14:20

Why is he so pathetically keen to see you? Is he running out of people who are prepared to tolerate him?

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:21

Naunet · 01/05/2024 14:17

but it’s not right to proactively peruse a relationship with your brother one minute , then treat him as valueless/ an inconvenience the next

Then maybe he shouldn’t have treated her in that exact same way but worse, by pushing her down the stairs! Actions have consequences. If you want to be treated with respect, treat others with that same respect.

Show quote history

Ok - so best that can be said is OP behaved badly, but her brother behaved much worse in the past.

BestDIL · 01/05/2024 14:21

My DS has mild aspergers - yes! you can have mild aspergers. Whilst aspergers has it's challenges, it sounds like your DB is hamming it up!

You say he pushed his wife down the stairs! Violence is not a trait usually associated with aspergers.

You are not being unreasonable in cancelling, I would have done the same.

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:21

adorablecat · 01/05/2024 14:20

Why is he so pathetically keen to see you? Is he running out of people who are prepared to tolerate him?

Edited

Maybe because people like to see their family members?

This is an odd take

OP posts:
DoreenonTill8 · 01/05/2024 14:22

Tandora · 01/05/2024 13:51

Obviously not,m when you put it like that. But there’s a whole spectrum of context you are missing out- which is why the family think OP is being unreasonable.

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I'm not sure which of your abuser acceptance/apologist posts you're on about, however the 'spectrum of context' you mention is that the 'shut up, this is how it is in our family, he's violent and aggressive, gets pandered to, and if you do something that upsets him, you need to apologise and just accept that he's actively harmed you, but should never be expected to apologise'?

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:22

BestDIL · 01/05/2024 14:21

My DS has mild aspergers - yes! you can have mild aspergers. Whilst aspergers has it's challenges, it sounds like your DB is hamming it up!

You say he pushed his wife down the stairs! Violence is not a trait usually associated with aspergers.

You are not being unreasonable in cancelling, I would have done the same.

Nooo thankfully my brother is not married

he pushed me down the stairs

OP posts:
JudgeJ · 01/05/2024 14:23

Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 11:30

Yes the hitler comparison was a bit of a wild one, DH is keen to send a copy of Mein Kampf for my brothers birthday this year as a joke but it might be too soon Grin

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Keep it lighter, send him Spike Milligan's book Adolf Hitler, My Part In His Downfall

LittleGreenDragons · 01/05/2024 14:23

Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 12:16

DH doesn’t like the fact I was pushed down the stairs by my brother, it was one of the worst incidents he witnessed

Thats his view, he doesn’t like someone who pushed his wife down the stairs.

Show quote history

You have a baby. Since your brother, and parents, think it was fine for him to do this (as they are all trying for you to remain in contact) what would happen if he did this when you were carrying your baby, or pregnant again? This is a very strong possibility.

If he can tour Japan by himself without getting into trouble or distress then he's manipulating every single one of you. It's not ASD causing his problems, it's him being abusive, controlling and nasty, and three people bending over backwards to cater to his every whim. His future is going to be very bleak because none of you have said no, enough. If you care for him and his future, start making him accountable instead of spoilt.

Original poster
Treaclescourer · 01/05/2024 14:24

Tandora · 01/05/2024 14:19

But that’s a totally self absorbed perspective . If her brother knew that he was entirely irrelevant in her mind, I doubt he would have been really excited about attending the lunch he was invited to. (As evidenced by the fact that he’s now decided to go no contact after realising how irrelevant he is).

It’s really not ok to treat people as means rather than ends, even if they are violent. They are still people and still have human dignity and worth.

Show quote history

Unfortunately my brother is seemingly unable to ever consider that he isn’t the main character in everyone else’s show.

It would never cross his mind that I wasn’t traveling down to see him specifically.

His inability to understand basic social norms isn’t my fault though surely?

OP posts:
Fluffywigg · 01/05/2024 14:24

You’re not doing anything wrong. I don’t care who what or why, if someone shows violence/aggression towards me then I wont be forced to have a close relationship with them.

Concentrate on yourself, DS and DH. The others will get over it!

Dweetfidilove · 01/05/2024 14:24

YANBU at all. You’ve done enough by spending time with someone who has been violent towards you. You’re under no obligation to do so.

He was an afterthought, naturally. You were visiting your father who was coming from overseas. Did you say you were visiting him?

I understand your family is probably accustomed to bending to your brother’s will, but you’ve done nothing wrong.

GoldenTrout · 01/05/2024 14:26

my issue is with people who aren’t my brother agreeing I am the worst and expect me to apologize and make it up to him. And by making it up to him it will mean me going out of my way (as usual) to appease him.

Just ask each of them how inclined they would be to see someone who never makes the effort to visit them and who had been repeatedly violent towards them.