I really don’t think I ABU but everyone thinks otherwise - AIBU?

[Treaclescourer]

I am quite used to always being seen as ‘at fault’ in my family but I am genuinely starting to think maybe I am being unreasonable here so wanted to get external opinions. It’s long so I apologize but I’d really appreciate any input.

backstory -
my brother has ASD (an Asperger’s diagnosis when that was still a thing) and although is very ‘high functioning’ is prone to being selfish, devoid of any empathy and at times violent.

My entire childhood revolved around him, and making sure he wasn’t overwhelmed due to the violent outbursts that would occur.

As he has gotten older the violence has started to become less frequent, but since being with my DH (11 years) he has witnessed 2-3 violent incidents from my brother towards me which has made DH not like my brother at all. He has ASD himself and because he isn’t violent doesn’t think my brother’s diagnosis is an excuse for that behavior. So I try to keep them separate, DH is polite and civil when around my brother but doesn’t enjoy spending time with him (although he does a very good job of masking it, as my brother is under the impression that he and DH are cool)

My brother lives 3 hours drive away from me.

(this is relevant) - additionally 8 years ago my father moved abroad for work and comes back to the UK every 2 years.

Now onto the issue at hand.

In November last year I was told my father was going to come back to the UK to visit for 3 weeks. This would be the first trip back since I had my DS. So it would be his first chance to meet his grandson. He was due to spend 2 weeks with my brother and one week with me.

DHs birthday is also in November and we had planned a city break for a long weekend. The city was about 40 mins away from where my brother lives. So I spoke to DH and said since we had limited time with my father I was thinking about making a detour to have maybe a nice lunch with my brother and dad on the way to the city break. To maximize the time as a family. He said of course as he also misses my dad (they have a great relationship) and wanted DS to get as much time with him as possible. I also hadn’t seen my brother for a few months at this point (as he won’t get a bus or coach to come and see us due to anxiety, and I had a newborn so wasn’t in the mood for 6 hour round trips)

Spoke to my brother, he was excited to see us all, great.

Unfortunately dad had to pull out of the trip due to medical issues a month before coming back. As that would just then leave the afternoon as just me, my brother, DH and DS I cancelled the detour to see my brother on the way to DHs birthday trip. As the only reason we were doing it was to maximize time with my father and tbh I felt bad expecting DH to spend a day around a man he dislikes on his birthday trip.

I understand why my brother is upset with this, but now I am public enemy number 1 in my family for being ‘so cruel’ to him and ‘making him feel like an afterthought’ - quite honestly he was an afterthought, he hasn’t bothered to come and visit us, he has never made the effort to come to me, and is now getting annoyed I wouldn’t do a 40 min detour to see him, I’m apparently a narcissist and almost as awful as Hitler (his words)

I’m not sure if since having DS a lot of trauma from my childhood and having to bend to my brothers will so much is coming up and making me a bit of an asshole, but honestly speaking - in this situation was I being unreasonable? Should I apologize?

Only on mn is cancelling a lunch with someone who makes no effort with you, is aggressive and violently assaulted you the bigger crime of the two!

My adhd brother was the same, OP. I grew up having to hide my own needs because his meltdowns were violent and it was so devastating to witness my parents struggling to cope. Taken me years to fully grasp the volatility of my childhood and how it affected me. Even when I had my own place he would move in and take over - I had been groomed to accommodate his overbearing behaviour. I remember being woken up at 5am with the sound of him attempting to strangle his gf and another time of him punching my father. At 14 I had to call the police because I came home from school and he was holding a knife to my Mum’s throat.

I know a lot of people on the ‘spectrum’ and all of them are non violent, good, unique and wonderful people, but my brother’s rage ruled us all and growing up with his unpredictable outbursts - it was tough and my boundaries were all over the place as a result. Therapy might help you to develop some strategies for dealing with your brother and to heal those wounds you inevitably received as a child.

Well then she shouldn’t have arranged to see her dad on her brother’s time. In her OP she acknowledges that she hadn’t seen her brother for a while and that was part of the appeal and that she had invited her brother and he was “excited” to see them.

Only on mumsnet is life so black and white 🤦🏼‍♀️

I wouldn't allow a violent person around my child, regardless of who they are, so yanbu.

I think at the moment I prefer NC vs the status quo

But in an ideal world I want a relationship with a brother who isn’t selfish, and a drain on my time and energy.

I think the ideal is fantasy if he's 30 and showing no signs of this.

I'd try and disengage from it all. Plans change and get cancelled all the time though I can see why he could take it as rude/disappointing you didn't want to travel to see just him but I can't image you are any keener with all that's gone on since.

Honestly it may be a blessing in disguise your Mum may have to face future plans being needed - as expect at back of her mind is idea you'll step up eventually despite being clear you won't.

You have a child your priority is now them - not having a violent manipulative man round them is not a bad thing. You just need to shut down any guilty tripping come from extended family - you are sorry he's upset but traveling with baby isn't easy and frankly it's his choice to go NC and it been an eye opening relief from his demands - or refuse to discuss it all.

Except OP was fine with it - her suggestion and everyone happy and excited- until she decided she couldn’t be bothered.

Op, I experienced violence from a brother throughout childhood and into adulthood, as well as the late night suicide threat calls.

I'd really recommend you getting some therapy about this, it could help you understand what kind of relationship you want with your family in future and how to communicate it.

So you think cancelling a lunch is a bigger crime than deliberately pushing someone down the stairs to injure them?
That's scary.

'I'm worse than Hitler am I?' no wonder I'm not keen on seeing you arse.
No, obviously don't say that. But don't apologise. Just say nothing. He's not rational.

What on earth are you talking about? You're clearly struggling to follow the thread. Never mind.

Obviously not,m when you put it like that. But there’s a whole spectrum of context you are missing out- which is why the family think OP is being unreasonable.

I agree with this, have seen similar threads where the parents like ops dm are in thrall to the aggressive family member, and secretly had visits to them with the ops child, despite aggressive threats being made because the sibling wanted it so they 'couldn't say no as they'd get upset'

Back story is irrelevant? It's the most important part of the thread.

I'd ask what you're talking about but I don't care, please do bore off with your childish and arrogant comments I'm not interested in what you have to say in the slightest.

There's a thread running just now about the rise in people on here sticking the boot into OPs. Some people will say anything to make an OP out to be unreasonable. Some comments are just so utterly outrageous that I can't even take them seriously. They're just stirring surely?

As someone who has experienced sibling violence, I'm appalled by some of these comments.

Violence is ALWAYS relevant context and cancelling lunch is not on par with pushing someone down the stairs.

Good call @Ohlookwhoitis has to be!

Someone up thread took the time to lay it out much more carefully - why the backstory is not relevant to the fact that OP is being unreasonable in this instance (pp’s comment copied below). As pp said, The backstory is relevant to why she doesnt what the relationship, not why she pulled out of this particular encounter. she was fhe one who suggested the lunch. If she doesn’t want a relationship with her brother , that’s one thing, but it’s not fair to proactively peruse a relationship one minute , then treat the other person as valueless/ an inconvenience the next.

”If I was your brother, the message I would be receiving is that you don't value me/the relationship with me. You're already living far away from each other so this was a rare opportunity to catch up and through this you've made clear that there was no part of the lunch that was catching up with him, only your Dad.

This might be how you feel, and perhaps you're justified. The back story is really giving justification for why you don't want the relationship not why you'd pull out of this particular arrangement, so taking that in isolation - as he no doubt will - it does seem off and would warrant an apology. But perhaps this is an opportunity for you to take stock of what contact you want with your brother and put him in the picture?”

The back story is not even slightly irrelevant! Do you always minimise male violence?

Your long winded message doesn't make you clearer right @Tandora.
Violence is never, ever acceptable, regardless of hurt feelings.

See comments above

That's a yes then, or you're the one who's aggressive in your family, expecting apologies and capitulation when you don't get your way or there's a perceived slight?

You seem to think his violence should have no bearing on how she should prioritise him when making plans, I’m afraid that’s not how life works. You treat someone like shit, don’t expect them to behave perfectly towards you in return. The idea that you expect her to show this man ‘good manners’ is laughable.

Oh the irony. By the way, throwing in exaggerated words like 'childish' and 'arrogant'...doesn't make it true. "I'm not interested". Are you stomping your feet too? 😂