I really don’t think I ABU but everyone thinks otherwise - AIBU?

[Treaclescourer]

I am quite used to always being seen as ‘at fault’ in my family but I am genuinely starting to think maybe I am being unreasonable here so wanted to get external opinions. It’s long so I apologize but I’d really appreciate any input.

backstory -
my brother has ASD (an Asperger’s diagnosis when that was still a thing) and although is very ‘high functioning’ is prone to being selfish, devoid of any empathy and at times violent.

My entire childhood revolved around him, and making sure he wasn’t overwhelmed due to the violent outbursts that would occur.

As he has gotten older the violence has started to become less frequent, but since being with my DH (11 years) he has witnessed 2-3 violent incidents from my brother towards me which has made DH not like my brother at all. He has ASD himself and because he isn’t violent doesn’t think my brother’s diagnosis is an excuse for that behavior. So I try to keep them separate, DH is polite and civil when around my brother but doesn’t enjoy spending time with him (although he does a very good job of masking it, as my brother is under the impression that he and DH are cool)

My brother lives 3 hours drive away from me.

(this is relevant) - additionally 8 years ago my father moved abroad for work and comes back to the UK every 2 years.

Now onto the issue at hand.

In November last year I was told my father was going to come back to the UK to visit for 3 weeks. This would be the first trip back since I had my DS. So it would be his first chance to meet his grandson. He was due to spend 2 weeks with my brother and one week with me.

DHs birthday is also in November and we had planned a city break for a long weekend. The city was about 40 mins away from where my brother lives. So I spoke to DH and said since we had limited time with my father I was thinking about making a detour to have maybe a nice lunch with my brother and dad on the way to the city break. To maximize the time as a family. He said of course as he also misses my dad (they have a great relationship) and wanted DS to get as much time with him as possible. I also hadn’t seen my brother for a few months at this point (as he won’t get a bus or coach to come and see us due to anxiety, and I had a newborn so wasn’t in the mood for 6 hour round trips)

Spoke to my brother, he was excited to see us all, great.

Unfortunately dad had to pull out of the trip due to medical issues a month before coming back. As that would just then leave the afternoon as just me, my brother, DH and DS I cancelled the detour to see my brother on the way to DHs birthday trip. As the only reason we were doing it was to maximize time with my father and tbh I felt bad expecting DH to spend a day around a man he dislikes on his birthday trip.

I understand why my brother is upset with this, but now I am public enemy number 1 in my family for being ‘so cruel’ to him and ‘making him feel like an afterthought’ - quite honestly he was an afterthought, he hasn’t bothered to come and visit us, he has never made the effort to come to me, and is now getting annoyed I wouldn’t do a 40 min detour to see him, I’m apparently a narcissist and almost as awful as Hitler (his words)

I’m not sure if since having DS a lot of trauma from my childhood and having to bend to my brothers will so much is coming up and making me a bit of an asshole, but honestly speaking - in this situation was I being unreasonable? Should I apologize?

You'd go NC with someone not going to lunch with you who you were previously violent to?

I'd go NC with someone who showed I didn't matter to them, which is why I said OP should have gone NC first. It's obviously about much more than lunch and you know that.

I think you're responding more rationally than you used to.

Based on what you've said, there's a clear answer: stay NC with him. You don't live in an ideal world; you live in this one. Your brother, realistically speaking, won't change. You prefer being NC to having a relationship with him in which he is totally self-centred, violent, and a bully. And rightly so. So there it is.

Your family are not going to take this well, no. The existing family dynamic revolves around everyone kowtowing to your brother, and you refusing to do this any longer puts some big old highly visible cracks in it. Good. It should break; it's dysfunctional and shitty and you shouldn't martyr yourself to it any more. But you will have to weather the short term discomfort of desperate family attempts to force you back into compliance so they don't have to face the truth for themselves.

This would hurt anyone and it's rude so it's not unreasonable of your dB to react to that with hurt. He is not necessarily enlightened enough to realise that because of his past behaviour, you won't treat him with the same respect and courtesy you would treat someone else. But the situation itself is toxic and I entirely understand why you have boundaries in place. If you're going to treat your brother like this, and I can see why you would, it might be better not to have contact at all given that he is so sensitive and the situation is volatile. I wouldn't do it with a baby.

Of course I know that, we all know that. 🙄

Is it possible he has a personality disorder that isn't being treated?

Sheesh, there is A LOT going on here.

First of all, pushing someone down the stairs is a serious, violent assault. If you’d hit your head or broken your neck, you could have been killed. I wouldn’t go near my brother ever again if he had done that to me, either alone or with others. I wouldn’t ever want him near my child, either.

Secondly, the issue here is not that your brother has autism, but simply that he is a nasty piece work. Your DH is right - you do do not have to put up with his behaviour just because he happens to be autistic. Your brother is unpleasant AND he is autistic; he is not unpleasant BECAUSE he is autistic. Regardless of his meltdowns and his lack of empathy, he is still aware of what he is doing and he knows it’s wrong. Someone like your brother would not be considered to have diminished responsibility if he were to murder someone. So yes, of course not all autistic people are the same, but your DH is correct that autism doesn’t justify or excuse your brother’s behaviour.

Thirdly, the rest of your family are treating you like shit by expecting you to pander to your brother, who has violently assaulted you numerous times. This is beyond dysfunctional.

Your family are making you out to be unreasonable because they don't want to take the flak from your DB. It's easier to blame you and tiptoe round him because you aren't going to have an outburst, insult or cause a drama. They have conditioned themselves not to challenge him because of his reaction. It's much easier to blame you and continue to pander round him.

I do t think he's being U to be upset that you didn't want to see him. But I also don't think you are U for cancelling.

Ok, so a pointless comment from you then making out that I'd go NC over a lunch issue.

What difference does that make? OP isn't his parent or carer, and personality disorders are fairly intractable when the person doesn't actually want to change.

Why he behaves like he does really doesn't matter compared to the impact of his behaviour on OP.

He pushed you down the stairs? Jesus Christ OP, I would have cut him off there and then, he’s not a nice person. And you may think that’s easy for me to say, but I’ve been there, I’ve cut my own brother off, haven’t had anything to do with him for 15 years. My mum sometimes tries to convince me to sort things out, but it’s water off a ducks back at this point, I’m sick of her enabling him, so I’ve told her to mind her business. Leave you parents to pander to him, you’re not part of their circus.

Does your brother go out to work? If so, does he control himself when he's dealing with men at work?

He has said before his therapist thinks he has Bipolar. But this ‘therapist’ might also not exist if you see what I mean.

as tbh I’d like to see where the manic highs have been hiding

He does not work, but can usually control himself around men he is fearful of if that makes sense.

I think that this is one of those situations where you are both coming at it from different angles. Your brother doesn't know how your DH feels about him because he masks and hasn't said anything. Your DB has reacted very badly to what he sees as rejection from someone he thinks as 'Cool'. However the main point is he has treated you appallingly and been allowed to think this is acceptable. He either doesn't know his behaviour is bad or he hides behind the fact that nobody has called him out on it.
It's not ok for him to treat you like this and it seems you've put up with it to keep the peace as you've learned that in your family only your brother is allowed to matter. You matter OP.

I think this is all part of the scales falling from your eyes. You're seeing your family for what they are, rather than what you've been conditioned to think your role is.

If you can afford some therapy I think it would help

You're not being irrational. They're trying to make you think that to keep you in line.

You can choose to put yourself and your children first.

PS OP, it's also time to stop putting your DH's reaction to your DB down to your DH's autism. Nobody with healthy boundaries would be OK to spend time with someone with a history of violently abusing their loved ones; it's just that you've basically grown up with Stockholm Syndrome where your brother is concerned.

Absolutely this, and the responses from some.posters that op is wrong
/needs to apologise/he's right in going NC clearly show that like @Treaclescourers family believe that their a hierarchy in life and some people should have their demands met and be pandered to.
You're doing the right thing op, stay back and whatever you do, don't be manipulated into being his carer lackey!

I think what you did was cruel and unkind , yes.
you expected your brother to be there when it suited you, but now you’ve made it clear you had no interest in seeing him whatsoever.
extremely bad manners.
back story is irrelevant.
Sorry but if you were my family member I’d think YABU too.

The backstory of Op's brother using physical violence towards her is irrelevant 😮

You have come to the right place if you want people to agree with you but I don’t. I think you could stop by and see him, but I also think that you could make a decision and stick to it no matter what other people (including me) think.

@Tandora and what do you think about the dB violence if you think not going to lunch is 'cruel and unkind'?

Wonder if the dB was hoping for op and family to take him out for a meal and pay and that's the main driver of the sulk?

She didn't "expect" him to be there when it "suited" her. He just happened to be there. If he had decided that just the dad would meet them and he'd stay home, OP would have been fine with that. She wasn't expecting anything from him.

Yes because she arranged to see him- everyone was happy and allegedly excited.
He’s not going to realise that he’s now being rejected because of something that happened in the past that apparently she’s still holding on to but hides it.
If OP’s brother’s violence is such that she doesn’t want to see him / doesn’t feel safe , she should make that clear and set a boundary. Not mess him around like this. Thats just cruel.