Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

I really don't know how that's possible.

Some of that fits in with the book I was reading - which was very much saying all calories aren't the same. Although it was saying to eat measured amount of oils / nuts - one thing was that of the high fibre foods a lot of what you are eating comes straight out - so all calories aren't going into your body (probably I'm not describing it well). Also that some foods are more filling than others - legumes, fibre and nuts being filling .

I also firmly believe that some styles of eating suit some people better than others eg I could never do high fat, low carb.

Is it possible to see what the 'Zoe method' is without paying a fortune and signing up ?

From what I understand it tells you what spikes your blood glucose the most so you can make better choices. There is a focus on gut health too so a stool sample is analysed.
I read there was a bit of controversy because it's the same people who were monitoring long covid symptoms and the use of so many influencers/celebrities pushing it. Also the idea that only those with type 1 diabetes actually need this level of blood glucose monitoring.
I don't follow the plan myself it's just bits I have read about it so I am sure someone will be along soon to correct me!

Zoe isn’t just about blood glucose levels, you actually only monitor these for a short test period at the beginning. The programme is designed to look at how you as an individual metabolise fats and sugars and how our individual gut microbes (good and bad) affect our health. For example I scored highly for metabolising sugars, but poor metabolising fats. My gut health was very good, I was then given scores for individual foods which aim to help me eat for the needs of my body. After saying all that, it is a lot of money to have this info when ultimately the diet appears to be very high in plant based, whole grains and very low in processed and UPF. The personalised individual scores are more about tweaking this further.
there are some Zoe podcasts online free to everyone which are very interesting.

I have to admit I giggle at these "give us poo" and "give us dna", "give us ankther thing from your body" companies because very often people who willingly give are also vehemently against national ID introduction because gov is spying or whatever....

They can spy on you already, if they want. Even if you didn't give them your poo or dna. Doesn't make a difference, so might as well do something useful for your health.

@Redty10 that's interesting, sounds like you have a different profile to mine. What kind of food is recommended for you by Zoe ?

Mine is high fat ( excellent fat score ) low carb ( poor blood sugar score ) and obviously lots of plants ( bad microbiome score ). But I think it recommends a lot of plants to everyone anyway.

Jeez
the anti eating threads on here lately !!
who fucking cares

It's a combination of things.

• Calories in vs. calories out
• The type of food eaten - processed, types of fats, carbs, alcohol etc
• Exercise taken - not just in terms of using up calories but also effect on driving up metabolic rate
• How the individual reacts to stress - stressing can use calories as a result, or can induce comfort eating.

My top5 gut boosters are- almonds, Brussels sprouts, cucumber, hazelnuts and mushrooms
gut suppressors to avoid- bacon, boiled sweets, cornflakes, sausages and salami, none of which I would eat anyway
top 5 proteins almonds, walnuts, lentils, kidney beans and salmon.
i won’t bore you with all the other categories but generally nuts, fruit, veg, legumes, seeds and fish seem to be the general picture.

@Redty10 sounds pretty similar to mine then. Slightly different, but the same idea.

So anyone who doesn't want to pay for Zoe, should probably consider something along these lines:

High fat ( nuts, olive oils, nut butters ), low carb ( no grains and rice / pasta ), 35 different things plants a week ( nuts are considered plants ), protein from chicken / fish / salmon every other day OR protein from chickpeas / beans etc, every day. And no processed food.

Interestingly, almond milk is considered a UPF.

So if I am eating lots of fruit and veg, legumes, whole grains, some fish and healthy fats in the form of nut butter and avocado that's pretty similar then.

What a bizarre contribution.

Less bizarre than yours ⬆️
At least mine had some semblance of relevancy to the theme of the thread 😂

Nuts and oils are incredibly high calorie. Proceed with caution if you wish to lose weight

SW is based on reducing calories by eating better. It is aimed at preventing hunger pangs by filling up on veg. and being mindful of what you eat.
I find that fruit does not help at all.
I watched an experiment where 2 men of same age etc, were isolated and fed exactly the same amount and content. One got a little fatter and the other lost a little. The idea was to see if it was metabolic, but it actually showed that the slimmer man never stopped moving and fidgeting, and the fatter man was able to relax to complete stillness. I wonder if the channel changer is the cause of weight gain😂

This

i am very obese and I have realised I basically have an addiction, I get a rush from food and hence my body sends hunger signals so I eat more. I’m trying to manage this via diet and medication. Due to the medication I no longer get the hit from eating so it’s easier to limit intake and make healthier choices. I need to also work on my addictive behaviour to stop regain.

Animals in the wild do not become overweight.

not quite right. many animals (including humans) are eating as much as they can to put down fat for times when food is scarce. its a very effective survival strategy.

in addition 'in the wild' animals hardly ever stay still and move a lot in the pursuit of food. and even if they do it's to process the food (thinking of ruminants here).

Indeed. I could eat high fat foods until they come out of my ears, and I'd have consumed thousands of calories too many by then before feeling full. I don't avoid these foods but have to be very controlled with portions and eat a combination of protein with veg and whole starchy carbs to feel satisfied for longer.

Surely it is as simple as CICO? Look at people who have been neglected/starved. They're all emacited. There are no larger ladies suffering from hormone deficiencies or chubby young boys who got their genes from their mums side of the family. You don't eat, you get thin.

@IfYouLiveInPigeonStreet genetics factor in. Racehorses are lean, sleek and fast. They can eat more before they gain & have sleeker lines. Shetlands like the Thelwell (?) cartoons expand in grass, are sturdy & prob fare better in bad weather conditions :).

@User14March

Agree completely. But an over fed racehorse will get fat. And an under fed Shetland pony will get thin.

@IfYouLiveInPigeonStreet of course.

It's not an "anti eating thread".

🙄