Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

Of course it's a matter of calories in, calories out. It's just maffs innit.

The mechanics behind how you come to be burning more than you're consuming, or vice versa, is a different matter, though...

For me, it absolutely is calories in versus calories out. Where the calories come from makes no difference, nor does the time I eat them or how and when I burn them. I'm in my 50s and post menopause which makes it harder to keep my weight in check, but only because I need so few calories now my metabolism is slower, but its still CI/CO not some mysterious condition brought on by my age.

I suppose that's what I meant in a way.

Different bodies react differently to the same calories, is what I've been hearing.

@Cerialkiller I'm sorry but that's such a sweeping generalisation and wrong. I am naturally slim and used to eat chocolate every day. I cut it down to once a week and definitely had a lot of cravings during that cutting down period! Thin people can definitely get cravings / urges and have to resist and exercise will power.

It's just maffs, innit.

Do I actually know you in real life? 😂😂

My DH is convinced that if you eat no seed oil, no processed food and no sugar you can eat what you want and not get fat 'because microbes' but he's not correct about that. But if your microbes are healthy and plentiful and your diet is good you'll find it harder to overeat.

Agree. CICO is oversimplified but basically true. Past a certain point you will lose weight due to simple thermodynamics.

However, your gut affects how many of the calories you put in your mouth are actually absorbed by the body. And the type of food you eat, along with a million other social factors like availability of different types of food, social pressures, time pressures affect how easy it is to actually eat at the right level for you. And yes, some people will lose weight while others will gain on the same amount of calories.

The thing diet fanatics prefer to ignore is that CICO isn't a straight equation. It works for most people and, as PPs have said, most can find a way of getting adequate nutrition & enjoyment from their lifestyle without gaining weight.

That part - where each individual's body works a little differently - also has outliers whose bodies work very differently. And, since all people must eat, there are a lot of those outliers in total. There are some who actually can't put on weight, sometimes to the point where it threatens their lives. There are some who can't lose it without giving themselves severe malnutrition. And there are multiple causes, which aren't easily fixed.

If somebody really does follow CICO, trying different approaches with no success over time, they most likely need to see their doctor - and get her to take them seriously enough to run some tests.

@PineappleTime please don't make assumptions about me, you don't know anything about me or my history with food and actually couldn't be more wrong. I was made to 'clear my plate' as a child and this definitely gave me my share of issues.

I agree op. Two twins were fed exactly the same diet at exactly the same time each day etc but their results were different proving that it’s not simply a case of cico

I think it is CICO but that other factors also come into play, including hormones and age. When young I could eat a completely different amount of calories to now at 52.

Probably but i was fine till 40. I lost baby weight back in jeans after both dc within 3w.
I think stress/depression and insulin resistance (possibly worse after 2 dc). I should also be on metformin and thyroxine.
Now i dont feel thin i just end up eating more.
Still size 12 but being told i look huge..

I have seen threads on here before asking slim people what they eat and common daily things were porridge, bananas yogurt, fish and veg!

many skipped a meal each day because they said they didn’t need it

I am obese.
I do believe in calories in calories out. It was worked in the past but them I binge and gain more than I lose.
Food noise is the issue for me. I have food on my mind 24/7 and it's annoying.
I struggle with portion sizes and snacking because I feel hungry. Eating is so comforting to me.
Tried every diet going but ultimately it's calories in calories out. I just need to fix my brain to find another coping mechanism. Have been to GP who has referred me to service because I have pre diabetes. I do not want to try weight loss medication.

Maybe 😂

Two books are useful here:

why we eat too much by Andrew jenkinson

ultra processed people by Chris van tulleken

...

I've been thin all my life, including post menopause, and it's blindingly obvious to me that it's not as simple as calories in, calories out.
I snack almost constantly, I eat out of boredom, I try to eat well and exercise regularly but frequently fail. I'm still slender.
I also look a lot older than my plump sisters and cousins, which I feel I should mention because women get SO MUCH scorn, unsolicited advice and out-and-out harassment for being anything but thin.

Not everyone uses every calorie they take in that's true. But you can't store energy you don't take in.. which means it's possible to control your weight despite how some 'nutrition experts ' try to make it sound like you can't (and need to buy their book and products)..

Want to gain weight... Eat more calories n then you use
Maintain.. Eat your tdee
Lose.. Eat less than you use

Understanding this has led me to now maintaining my weight loss after yo yo ing for 40 years

I don’t think it’s a straight equation, but I do think that a lot of people are in denial about their own health. Ie, I don’t believe that it’s really possible to eat healthily, lift heavy weights, walk a lot, and be fat

I think that a lot of people (usually women) are stuck in a yoyo diet mindset of thinking that a diet of UPF yoghurts and wine and an occasional Zumba class which “burns 900 calories” should be the answer to being slim… and it isn’t

Watching videos and reading opinion pieces online is not "doing research". A lot of the time it is "absorbing advertising material" or "paying attention to junk science or culty people".

Calories in/calories out is an oversimplification because it doesn't cover the different efficiencies with which people absorb calories in different contexts nor the way the body goes into hyper conservation mode if starved, and the available calories in foodstuffs is more complex than just looking up a value. However the besic principle of energy in/energy out is generally true although we have a lot less control of both of these than we think.

Overweight people can have a myriad of reasons why they don't lose weight and assuming they are not disciplined enough is very lazy thinking though.

Bottom line is CICO but that’s more complex than it sounds-

— different foods have different levels of caloric availability. If you eat 100 cals of high fibre food, you’ll digest fewer than 100 cals. Digesting protein in itself burns cals. 100 cals of sugar on the other hand is easy to digest so you’ll get the whole lot. So calories in might be different to what it says on a calorie counter.

-different people burn different amounts for the same level of activity- depends on your metabolism, age, size etc etc.

So it’s quite possible for two people to eat the same number of calories and do the same exercise and yet one gains and one loses.

I used to think it was as easy as cutting calories but I now know it’s more complex than that.
there is some element of truth that a calorie deficit will help with weight loss but there isn’t a one size fits all formula.
I’ve done many “diets” over the years, slim fast plan, slimming world, rosemary Conley, intermittent fasting, calorie counting but I feel am probably more in tune with what works for me now.
im reading a book at the moment which asks why we eat UPF’s and what effect they have, I’ve also been listening to some podcasts about biomes, sugar spikes, insulin resistance etc
I have had an unhealthy relationship with food for years - I’ve never been massively overweight but food for me is like an addiction .
I am trying very hard to see food as fuel and focusing on making choices that means my body functions and feels well.
The whole topic I find fascinating but the answer isn’t as simple as I once thought it was

erm I'm not sure why you're taking offence to my post. Apologies if I was wrong in my comment but the principle stands even if it doesn't apply to you as an individual. It also wasn't an insult, I've no idea why the tone is needed.

One thing I've noticed is that I snack more at work than my overweight colleagues (nuts, wanky pea protein crisps, fresh orange juice, savoury home made muffins) and I am more active than them. They tend to have pot noodles or cup a soup and cappucinos (I've never had any of them in my life) and don't leave the office for a walk.

Most overweight people are in denial about the amount of calories they eat.

Lots are also in denial about being over-weight!

A friend of mine eats incredibly healthily but she eats SO MUCH so is really over-weight. She has half convinced herself that because it's home cooked food and not processed junk then it's ok to eat that much.

To be fair, she's probably healthier on the inside that me, as although I'm really slim, I get far too many of my calories from processed junk (which I'm trying to change - it's just hard as processed junk is SO addictive).