Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

Also, nobody's pointing out that the older you get, the longer it takes to burn off calories, regardless of the level of exercise you take. Your metabolism changes.

I've read so many different studies over the years about what causes weight gain, what works and what doesn't. In the end, it DOES come down to CICO, however, there are so many factors in "how many calories." Genetics plays a huge part in it. As do several other factors. Given two people of similar size, activity rates, and body types, their caloric needs can vary wildly.

An example, until my severe hypothyroidism was diagnosed, and I was put on the proper medication for it, I could maintain my weight on about 700 calories a day. It was horrific.

It is far more complicated than cico. I had to have a hysterectomy many years ago at age 38 and within a year had piled on 4 stone. Prior to that I had been a steady 9 stone and could eat whatever I liked without gaining weight. Nothing about my lifestyle changed in that year. Dr said I was unlucky and likened me to some cats and dogs who get fat after being spayed. Despite various diets I have only ever been able to lose 1 stone of that extra weight.
Also, there is the issue of growth hormones being fed to animals which are then slaughtered as food for humans. Do these hormones affect us perhaps?

Food noise is so real and speaks to a disbiosis of the gut microbiome and hormone imbalance. I used to have food cravings all the time but I have corrected this by learning how to nourish my gut and rebalance my hormones. I recommend reading appetite correction by dr burt herring and fast feast repeat by gin stephens. These books have changed my life. Also ultraprocessed people is a brilliant book and has changed the food our family eats.

I'm over weight, and I'm definitely not disciplined enough to stick to any diet long term.

@Toptops I did, I think age is a huge factor. If I look at same age peers, curiously the ‘very skinny without much effort/hollow legs’ group in late teens/early 20s seem to have gained a disproportionate amount of weight in midlife. Also do most of us end largely up at our mother’s weight at mid life.

Also all those skinny 90s boy band members are by & large much larger now unless tall & rangy to start with. ‘The Spice Girls’ look fab at 50 & are not overweight, money & motivation. Lots of it.

I have pointed this out. Not only am I old but I have an underactive thyroid which means my CO are lower than they would be, I dont know if this will be treated but in the meantime my CI are meagre.

What about people saying they are overweight or living with obesity on less than 1000 calories a day? Wouldn't people like that also be present in famine conditions?

It’s quite a depressing read this thread.

The only tool we have is cico - which has been acknowledged as dependent upon the individual and how efficient their body is at burning calories.

FWIW I am not a snacker, never have been, rarely eat chocolate- maybe at Xmas.

I have ate clean and in a deficit for seven days and all I have lost according to the scales is absolutely nothing.

To lose it seems I have to do a 30 min weight lifting video 5 x a week and 40000 steps

They say exercise isn’t an important factor for weight loss but that isn’t true in my case!

Interesting how people mention sleep quality - this last year I’m awake between 4-6am most days and similarly people mentioning heart rate - my bpm are super low, with life long low blood pressure too!

maybe that’s why HIIT workouts are said to be helpful! Might try doing that five times a day for a week see if it helps

People here saying it’s an exact science but that is an oversimplification of things it’s complex and dependent upon the person

You constantly hear about the skinny husband who eats more than his overweight wife and in no way does it imply she eats way more than him. However years ago I would have probably believed that she did.

Although she’s more likely to be on fat inducing SSRIs to deal with his shitty behaviour 🤣🤣

@Quitelikeit sleep is the new smoking & hugely important. Alcohol, as well as being empty cals, affects sleep quality too & that’s worth noting.

Who has said its an exact science?

@soupfiend

forgive me but I don’t have the time or the patience to scroll back 🤣🤣

So ... there is a CICO equation for you at this particular time in your life but it will not be the same as everyone else's, and it may change next week or next year.

You just bob and weave.

As long as you eat less than you poo, your weight will drop, no?

No.

Fgs

It's calories in and calories out, as simple as that. I lost weight when I was younger eating rubbish but very little calories. Very disordered but it worked. You'd lose weaving eating 1000 calories of biscuits a day rather than 3000 Cala of healthy food a day. Even if I'm reducing calories these days I still try and stick to healthy choices and protein as I'm hungry quickly after if not and tempted to graze.

It's not my opinion. It's science. https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7257

This says that you excrete fat when you breathe out.
It doesn't say you have to be asleep
It doesn't say if you don't sleep you won't lose weight
You may weigh less in the morning than you did the night before because you excreted fat in your breath overnight but that doesn't mean that's the only time it happens

If what you said was true I could cut my food bill (or avoid starvation) by sleeping less.

It very much is CICO, nobody has the power to break that. If they did, they'd be a billionaire as they'd be able to identify ways for the human body to use energy other than burning your own fat, and people who experience famine would be in a much better position.

You can't get around the reality that if you're sat at a calorie deficit over time you will lose weight. You can't get around the opposite.

Obviously, in reality, people have different appetites, preferences, they are socialised differently, different stressors and ways of coping with them, so it's by no means always easy to lose weight. Losing weight is the very definition of something that is incredibly simple but very difficult!

Such a bizarre argument. I mean, concentration camps aren't exactly famed for allowing prisoners to get plenty of good quality sleep, yet somehow they lose weight. Every single person.

Whenever I see someone claim that CICO isn't accurate or this nonsense around sleep I challenge them to show me a photo of someone who's lived through a famine or been in a concentration camp and remained obese. Funnily enough they can't do it.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea which statement were you unaware of? Sleeping or the way fat cells break down?

Fat gets converted to CO2 (and water) after it has been broken into glycerol and fatty acids to be used by the tissues that need energy. It is a series of individual reactions, not a direct conversion.

More energy required > more fat broken down > more CO2 exhaled.

It's is mostly calories in/calories out but SOOOOO much more. Metabolism, DNA (as in family passing down shit genes!), BMR (baeline calories), gut flora/microbiome, being unwell etc.

I've been on an NHS/GP led total diet replacement plan for 12 weeks (I'm in week 10) following a medical emergency. Shakes totalling between 800-900 calories per day. Nothing else. I've lost weight quickly and steadily. I was sick for weeks recently with that awful extreme cough thing going round. I actually put weight on!

The GP and consultant assured me this was normal and was due to my being so ill - even though I was 500 calories in deficit the whole time.

Of course starvation makes you lose weight. But that’s not the issue. Also if those people were having the same calories but UPF what would happen? We don’t know yet.

Science shows us that managing our own weight in a society or context with abundant food, UPF heavily marketed at us is very complex. In a situation where there isn’t much food available it’s different. So CICO is just the baseline factor in an incredibly complex scenario;

It is all about calories in vs calories out.
But that doesn't mean it's either easy or simple, but what is undeniable is that weight loss (or gain) is essentially down to thermodynamics. If there is an energy surplus then that surplus will be stored (in the human body as mainly fat but also muscle and bone). If there is a energy deficit then stored reserves will be used (hopefully mostly fat but also lean tissue).