Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

What about insulin production?

What about it?? It still doesn't change the laws of thermodynamics. It may make creating that deficit harder, but if you create a deficit you will lose weight.
Again I didn't say it was easy or simple, just undeniable.
And tbh far more complicated than even just insulin.

So two people, who are the same size and weight, do the same amount of exercise, eat the same number of calories can have different experiences of weight management depending on what kind of carbohydrate they eat and how that then impacts on insulin production and blood glucose levels.

That’s just one example of how it’s just not as simple as calories in and calories out. There are many more and lots of those factors are influenced by each other in multiple and complex ways. …

Trying to blind with science here.
Energy can't come from nowhere.

If you don't put food in your face, your body can't store it as fat. It has to use its fat reserves.

Some people can eat more and their body doesn't turn all the calories into fat.
BUT
No one can create fat without a calorie surplus
No one can eat at a calorie deficit and not use up stored energy.

That's because with every gram of glycogen (which your body has converted from carbohydrates including sugar) you also store another 3g of water. Which is why when someone goes low carbon they drop a lot of weight quickly. It's not fat they're losing when they talk about losing 10lb in the first week, it's water that would have bonded with the glycogen

It’s calories in, calories out. Thats simple enough.

It’s not simple to lose weight though, as there are many factors, including psychological ones, poverty, environment, etc.

That people actually breathed out fat. Absolutely no idea! Not sure where I thought fat went to but I would never have dreamt that we breathed it out . Of all of the diet and health articles / books etc I've read (and as a 50-odd year old yo-yo dieter I've read a lot!), I've never seen that before .

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea a while back i watched a good tedxtalk on how fat cells break down and are turned to carbon dioxide which we breath out, so i visualize that when i'm huffing and puffing doing stuff that's hard.
but i will not lie stuff does get confusing when i've equally read that all the fat cells we have, we are born with, and that the little globules never really go away just that the water stored in them shrinks (maybe it's this part that's exhaled).
in my naivety i thought the cells were broken down and the liver expelled the byproducts in urine or stool, i got that wrong.

any scientists out there that can help me with a link to that part of the puzzle would be appreciated

in my naivety i thought the cells were broken down and the liver expelled the byproducts in urine or stool, i got that wrong.

I would have thought that too and I have also heard what you mentioned about the fat cells.

Well every day is a school day - as they say!

That is because it isn’t true. You breath out CO2 and water vapour, not fat.

Trying to blind with science? 😂

fat is metabolised into sugar by the liver and then burnt as fuel and breathed out as co2.

so yeah, in a very roundabout way we breathe out fat.

and as we sleep we don't tend to re-fuel which in % means we turn more fat into fuel to burn.

very very roughly anyway.

Him and Michael Fucking Moseley. Having a medical degree doesn't make you a nutrition expert.

Have you never heard this common idiom before? It means trying to confuse people using complexity and irrelevant information

Are you ok? You seem vexed.

implying I'm being emotional and irrational in my response - bit of a bully (and somewhat misogynistic) tactic. I was just being factual.

Actually accusing me of ‘blinding with science’ was the first point of rudeness. You reap what you sow.

You do seem vexed. Unnecessarily so.

I work closely with dieticians and a weight management team so this stuff is something I have a small amount of knowledge of. I’m not an expert by any means but what I do know is that blaming the person and their weak will is both outdated, untrue and unhelpful. It’s a massively complex area and just looking at CICO is too reductionist. I’m allowed my opinion. It has as much value as yours. It’s ok if we disagree.

Go dig some more or choose not to believe.

I have nothing to gain by wasting my time trying to convince you. It’s proven. Not my opinion. There are physiological differences between sleep and non sleep states and quality sleep states.

You are right. On both counts. What you are saying and the notion you might be saying your time to keep sharing well researched (and developing) understanding of the links between weight and sleep.

but the article you linked to doesn't state what you're claiming.

I'm absolutely baffled as to why a couple of posters on here are working so hard to insinuate that weight loss is something mystical, unknowable, impossible to understand, 'not that simple'. Who are you helping?

It is that simple. sorry if that's difficult for you to accept. It's boringly simple just not easy to do.

I've lost over 4 stone using CICO alone and currently maintaining that weight loss. it is as simple as keeping to a number of calories.

Likewise, it’s hard to understand why you can’t understand that it’s more complicated than that.

I’ve given you the example of two people with the exact same body, doing the exact same exercise and eating the exact same number of calories could lose/gain weight differently depending on what kind of carbs make up those calories because of how that then effects blood glucose.

You accused me of blinding you with science. 🤷‍♀️

That’s just one example of one of the many factors that can affect a persons weight. Blaming it on a lack of willpower is reductionist and unhelpful.

You have found what works for you and that’s great but dietitians actually advise against calorie deficit and instead advise on healthy eating and more movement. Swapping out simple carbs with more complex slowly absorbed carbs. Etc. Calorie deficit diets have been shown to add weight in the long run.

I was just the same. I am a peer of Twiggy and was pretty much built the same. BUT I got to 45, and everything changed. By the time I was 55, I had literally doubled my weight.

Yes, reduction in exercise contributed, but my metabolism just slowed down.

I have managed to lose some of it, but have discovered by trial and error that red fruits actually cause weight gain, and that more sleep helps. It just does take effort and a diary to identify things that help/don't.

This is dangerous rubbish.

weight loss requires calorie deficit.

if you use more calories than you eat you will lose weight

you're either in total denial, have no relevant life experience or are disingenous. I don't know which.

How can a calorie deficit cause weight gain in the long run? It can't - people regain weight when they start overeating again.

This is dull sea-lioning all over an interesting and useful thread so I won't respond again.