Do you still think it's all about calories in vs calories out and fat people are not disciplined enough ?

[deebate]

I've been doing a lot of online research over the years around diet/ exercise and what's the answer. How can I keep fit and be healthy.

I've tried various things and I am generally a believer in calories in vs calories out. Which seems to be the favoured method on here.

If anyone complains they're struggling with losing weight, it must be because they're not counting everything etc.

In any case, I've now stumbled across a number of podcasts of different doctors and nutritionists in the field talking about gut microbes and sugar spikes etc and how actually it's really not just about calories at all.

What's the consensus on here about all this ?

But the vast majority of people will not have dramatic changes in their calorie needs from week to week and can and do lose weight by calorie counting. It may require a little trial and error to find the right level but it's easy enough to do.

ive always considered it calories, yes i know genetics etc can also be a part of it but to me its like an engine, if your not using all the fuel but keep topping it up then the cals will be the driving factor.

Where do you get the idea that someones calorie requirements wouldnt be enough to provide adequate nutrition?

And if that is the position, to eat in excess of your calorie requirement.... what do you think is going to happen next?

No, it's 100% not about calories in/calories out. It's about eating within a much smaller window that a lot of people do. E.g 6 hours or maybe 8 at first. It's about eating more, as in 30 different plant foods per week. Think mediterranean diet, cut out processed foods. Your gut will thank you!

Calories in calories out Yes.
Lack of willpower it's much more complex than that. Gut microbiome, foods that cause cravings and emotional issues. I live with an overeater. I can see how very hard it is. But limiting ultra processed food and carbs seems to help with the cravings

Also, every overweight person I've ever met eats a lot more than they should

This is a very complicated question. First of all everyone is different. No single solution will work for everyone.

In 2018 I learned about ACES - Adverse Childhood Experiences and learned that this researched stemmed from a project trying to establish why some people just couldn't keep weight off. There's a level of psychology.

I did a gut biome protocol called Betrhealth and lost about 50lbs. i didn't keep it all off. But they got me into the habit of weighing myself almost every single day. For 9 months I've been using the Lumen to track how I respond to food.

So with tons of data I can tell you some things. EVERYTHING I'm writing came from a medical professional - not Google.

-It is not just about calories. But if you eat 3000 calories a day and don't exercise chances are you're going to have excess energy that converts to fat.
-If you don't sleep enough you are unlikely to lose weight efficiently no matter what you do - because when you're sleeping is when you're body disposes of fat which evidently you breathe out.
-Depression can cause weight gain to stop or increase or decrease
-birth control can cause weight gain through water retention and reportedly other issues but taking birth control does not equal - you WILL gain weight.
-during the pandemic - 2x I have had to take antibiotics - both time I gained a large amount of weight following - why? The gut biome. There are bacteria that are known to be tied directly to weight gain, hunger and obesity.
-If you look at my weight tracker and map stressful events such as someone having to deal with a bogus lawsuit, had to move because of a peeping tom(ette) who was harassing me and my child, being made redundant - there are significant increases in my weight.
-I can lose weight efficiently without alcohol, processed food, and high protein and lots of vegetables.
-seamingly healthy foods that have salt that is not sea salt or himalayan pink salt, dairy and nondairy products with gums (guar, carageenan, etc) or sugar (dextrose, glucose, lactose, fructose) etc will cause me to gain weight or slow down weight loss if Im doing everything else 'perfectly'
-at Christmas I got the flu and didn't eat much for 5 days and lost 8lbs!!!
-combinations of food matter!

So my experience so far is that for some people it's straightforward exercise eat moderately well and for some people it's very complicated.

It's defo not about calories in and out. If it was I'd be a matchstick. I eat between 400-600 calories on average a day. I'm always moving despite disability I never stop and do as much as I possibly can yet I'm 18 stone at 5ft 3in tall. I do have problems swallowing and I know my weight gain was.actuakky accused by growth hormone when I was younger as I was small for ages and undeveloped. I caught up on growth hormone and then just ballooned. It could have also been due to other medication at the time. Now however none of the meds I'm on cause weight gain in fact most cause appetite issues. Which I do have. I also have problems eating solid foods due to Dysphagia. But I'm still considered.obese.

But also very simple. If it’s on your hips, it got in through your mouth. The argument can’t be about this. It’s about how hard it can be to only put an appropriate amount of the right stuff through your mouth. Which IS harder for some people than others.

@cremebrulait

-If you don't sleep enough you are unlikely to lose weight efficiently no matter what you do - because when you're sleeping is when you're body disposes of fat which evidently you breathe out.

What ?? I've never heard anything like that before. Sorry but I can't see that being possible .

Has there ever been studies done on people who eat no more than newborn baby and are still overweight? I find it fascinating. I have a health issue where sometimes I feel nauseous for a week or so and barely eat in those times the weight drops off me. I'm always so shocked at the number of calories people here say they eat and still remain overweight. I thought when you were overweight you needed more calories just to carry the weight around, it seems wild that weight can stay the same with not even enough calories to keep the average body working properly.

Are there people who remain overweight in famine conditions? I guess someone with lower energy needs would just give food to family who need it more though.

Diet advice from a size 20 is, ironically, very unhelpful. If you have got proven evidence it works how can you be so sure.

It is for me. Put a pot on the table count some peas into it then take the same out, now do that but take one less out each time and see what happens.

losing weight is hard work, it’s all to easy to blame it on everything else.

Scientifically it is about calories in/calories out but there are so many more factors to consider eg emotional eating, high blood sugar (causing hunger/sugar cravings), exercise levels, gut biome, sleep levels, hormones, eating disorders, social pressures etc etc

No.

no one gained weight in concentration camps. No one gained weight in Ethiopia during famines.

anorexics don’t gain weight.

if you starve animals they don’t gain weight.

If people gained weight on calories too low to maintain TDEE they’d be in the medical literature. There’d be studies as to why this happens.

Scientifically it’s very very complex

It’s complex. Human beings are complex.

IT IS COMPLEX!!! The end.

My DP says I'm complex and I said if only it were that simple.

I recently did an inadvertent experiment with food!

I have always struggled with eating. I was anorexic as a teenager and have spent my adulthood swinging between periods of starvation and periods of over-eating. In the last year or so my food intake had dropped and become very irregular with many missed meals. I was exercising regularly but not losing weight. My GP kept telling me I needed to eat more to lose weight but I couldn't grasp the logic and couldn't take the risk.

In February, I was sectioned and detained on a psychiatric ward. My activity levels dropped to virtually zero and mealtimes were what structured my days. I started eating 4 meals a day - frosties for breakfast, a cooked meal and dessert with custard for lunch, another cooked meal for tea then a round of sandwiches for supper. Incredibly, my weight remained fairly stable over the 6.5 weeks I was there. So since leaving the ward I have endeavoured to eat regularly and I am now losing weight despite eating much more than I did beforehand.

Weight control is far more complicated than CICO.

I eat a decent-sized bowl of porridge for breakfast (semi-skimmed milk, no sugar) and it keeps me going all morning. I have noticed that the people at work who have had no breakfast are snacking by 10am and continue to snack until lunchtime; I'm apportioning absolutely no blame, they are genuinely HUNGRY. I believe it's all about food choices; eat three decent meals a day to fill you up, drink plenty (water, tea, coffee, not sugary drinks) and don't snack in between. Also walk briskly and move often. Hope that helps a little.

everyone should read Ultra Pocessed People!
Most of the food industry is part of a massive con designed to get people hooked on processed crap for profit with not a care for the health of society and governments around the world do absolutely nothing

Cal in and out is only part of loading weight. It very hard to know exactly how many cals you use a day especially if your breastfeeding.