Am I off my head to think I can work full time with a very young family???

[watermelonfizz]

Sorry if posted in the wrong area

I have a 9 month old and a 2.5 year old and am about to head back to my teaching job at the end of my maternity leave. I’ve been met with outrage off my teacher friends and headteacher about even considering working full time.

I went back full time after my first baby and it was hard but it worked - 2 days nursery & 3 days grandparents - worked very well so I would consider we have solid childcare.

i just feel like I am being met with so much judgement :( people making comments like I’m missing out on so much etc, will never be there for the school runs when they’re older. People questioning can I fully commit to my career and being a parent - Nobody seems to say any of these things to my dh though?

In my head I’ve always just thought it’s swings and roundabouts and you can’t have everything- I get 13 weeks off a year with them and they will always get to be with me in the school hols. My best friend for example, left teaching for a different job with more flexibility to work around school runs etc and says she couldn’t possibly miss the school run. But then she’s scrambelling around for childcare when it’s the school holidays? This doesn’t appeal to me! I’m on a good wage as i worked my way up the pay scale pre children and l can offer my children a lot in terms of experiences, holidays etc. This is how I justify it all in my head anyway

i was happy with my decision but I feel like I’m being judged and people think im a crap mum for working 5 days a week.

I thought I was lucky having good help off grandparents 3 days a week and a good nursery with my toddler loves, school holidays are all sorted because they will be with me, dh could do school drop off/pick up a couple times a week and my parents have already said they will love to help with school runs if we need help. I’ve booked for a cleaner to start a couple of hours a week when I’m back at work to help with the housework a bit. I just feel very judged and that people think I’m a crap mum and I feel so guilt ridden now :(

also with the cost of living and interest rates, the last thing I want to do at the moment is cut my earnings down and feel less secure. Our nursery fees are low as my toddler gets the 15 hours and my baby will get the 15 hours in September

I'm a full time teacher with 3 kids, no support. It's just about doable but at times can be absolutely brutal and I would bite someone's arm off if they offered me part time (not an option in my school).

It definitely impacts on my teaching. My husband and I split everything down the middle and both my job and children suffer. My husband was brought in to his boss and was told in around about way to get a nanny but we cant find anyone who is on constant standby waiting for a sick child to nurse so we can go to work. Who wants to leave a clingy toddler with a fever with someone anyway? Not all grandparents want the germs either, so that wouldn't necessarily solve problems if we had family nearby.

Would you send the children to your parents if they got sick? I feel like I'm off work every month with one sick kid and that's with sharing the load with DH. I'm being realistic when I say that your Headteacher has probably just seen it all before. All of my colleagues with children agree that it's absolutely, bone crushingly exhausting and we all wish we could go part time. Our husband's all pick up the slack and all annoy their bosses with constant absences/repeated requests to work from home to stay with a sick child/attend xyz/do a certain thing.

@watermelonfizz I think that conversation with your headteacher is outrageous and I'd speak to your union if you're in one. Id also be tempted to email them and say this is what I'm planning. You have said X and y and while I appreciate the intent I am absolutely able to fulfil my job role so I'll see you in September. I know that's a bit nuclear but id be fuming!

Your midwife friend is projecting either her guilt or values on you. She feels bad about Christmas or values school run. You value something else. Her view on it isn't reflective of your situation

Also I have discovered that people just hate boundaries. They do. We all talk a good game in work and home but so often when someone else asserts them we are horrified. Especially when a woman has the audacity to do it, funny that ...

Do it. You clearly want to go full time. Your DC will be fine. If you find it too hard, you can think about making changes later. What your headteacher said was shocking.

I've always worked full time [not in teaching] and went back to work on both occasions when my children were 6 months old. My husband and I really do share the load so I've been lucky in that and since covid we both wfh a fair bit which does make a huge difference. A friend who moved to 4 days a week changed back after 12 months saying that a 20% pay cut for doing a full time job in 4 days was a joke. And her salary covered the extra day in childcare easily so it became a no brainer. I've always borne that in mind.

What I would say is that aging parents and two small children is quite an ask. What people think they can cope with and can actually cope with can be too different things. So have a plan B whether it's an au pair or longer hours at nursery [for the older more active child perhaps] so you can adapt as you go.

On the one hand, I'm peed off on your behalf re your headmasters comments, but I do bear in mind a later comment that he may well be speaking from experience. The first couple of years are prime bug season especially when they are nursery setting. Hand, foot and mouth, chicken pox, virus after virus, the list is endless.

Many "bosses" also assume that with a working husband you'll be "taken care off" and working is more a lifestyle choice for you....
As a boss myself, I do welcome colleagues back to work after mat AND pat leave of any duration knowing that for the next 12 months I'm just going to have to be as flexible as I can. Not every workplace can offer that though and the first few years are tough. There will certainly be times when you both wonder what you were thinking but with school holidays off, it feels completely manageable to me.

As someone who has always worked full time I can’t really understand what the issues are, plus you’ll get 13 weeks of holiday and so as they get older it won’t be a problem to cover those.

I also didn’t really find it ‘brutal’ or ‘hard’ like others have said, the key is organisation. Get all your Ducks in a row, have a plan A and a plan B and you’ll be fine!

Ignore the headteacher, or better still go to your union about him. It seems like you've given this lots of thought, and you've already got one dc so you can probably envisage what it might be like with two. Your kids will be fine and the grandparents will probably be what makes this possible. I'd say give some thought to splitting the domestic load equally with dh, and buy in whatever help you can. Also make sure you get a bit of time to yourself in the holidays otherwise you are likely to burn out. Two kids at home in the holidays is much harder work than one. Basically your whole life will require kid-related energy, so I'd think carefully about how to look after yourself.

I faced the same judgement combined with sudden unwillingness to make any allowances for being a working mum with young children. It was shocking to me how many older women have an axe to grind and went out of their way to criticise my choice and even say I was an unfit mother or say why have children if you’re going to treat them like a piece of luggage or a fashion accessory.

I ignore women like that. I think they are either jealous of me or regret their decision to stay out of work long term.

This is the normal for most people I know! What odd reactions.

to pick up a point- dh had this initially, anything child related it was “can’t your wife do it” and there was a definite problem.

there is a culture in some workplaces that men don’t take time off for child related things. Women can, and it’s less of an issue, but then women don’t get the career advancement as it’s expected men focus on career, women on children.

the view that husband’s “pick up the slack” of a wife working full time, when what they’re actually doing is sharing the load.

dh’s work eventually got the point. My current role it is as normal for a male boss to ring in and arrange cover for the first hour of their shift for childcare as it is for females. No one bats an eyelid or gets annoyed. And that’s how it should be.

if your husband’s bosses are getting annoyed at them sharing a caring load then the problem is the workplace culture, not that the wife works full time.

The only person who can make you feel anything is yourself. People can comment, voice opinions etc. But it's you who chooses to feel guilty.

Life is full of compromises. I gave up work when no 2 came along and gave up the "holidays and experiences" and some would say, squandered a university education. Other parents worked full-time and used breakfast and after school clubs and made their own sacrifices. Whatever you decide to do is irrelevant, as long as you accept that there is no perfect decision on this. What is of concern is your Head's attitude to your employment.

I and all my female friends work full time and have young families.

It’s difficult sure, not a lot of ‘me time’.

But honestly? Not half as bad as I’d imagined. And the kids are all very settled, thriving in childcare etc.

If you find it too much, dial it back. You may as well try it thought!

No one asks men this.

It's difficult but hardly impossible - many people do work f/t and have small children and many people don't really have much choice about it.

I went back ft when I had a 18 month old and a four year old and it was often relentless, especially coming home, immediately driving to get oldest from post-school childminder (later after school club) and then picking up youngest from nursery - even though both were nearby it mean I somehow didn't actually get home until about 40mins after the end of my commute. But it was only a few years, I managed.

I had two under three and I worked full time an hour an a half commute away. No family nearby but we did get a very good and accommodating child minder. I'm not going to lie, it was exhausting. Everything had to be planned like a military operation. It was doable but it was not fun. However needs must and we couldn't afford for me to do anything else.

@watermelonfizz you are extremely lucky to have so so much support which clearly massively helps in working f/t. I’m a teacher but have absolutely zero support(lots of family but they don’t do helping) , it’s a massive juggle with my dh and I and we have 3 dcs . I work 25 hours a week but piles but work to do after . The kind of help you have would be huge for us and make life so much easier . Maybe some of your colleagues do it /have done it without support and are just saying how difficult they find it .
I work with two teachers with small kids , one has never missed a day etc because her family helps outline yours if the dcs are sick and the other has no help and it’s far more stressful for her and her dh as they are off more due to dcs being off sick etc .
So with your family support you’ll be fine . I can’t even imagine how much easier that must be !

I found working with younger children easier than primary school aged.

Would it help to reframe it as a now decision than a forever decision. Maybe in three years it'll be the case you want to work less but for now this works for all of you

Agree with this, in most cases it's a decision that can be changed at a later date. I work full time and have 2 DC with SEN. They may need me more in the future, so I've always said I'll work full time while they are supported and doing well, so I can get the mortgage paid down etc.

My MIL has been relentlessly horrid to me about the decision to work full time. She once told me that the expected my DC were "probably the only ones in nursery full time, as the other mothers will have found jobs that work with family life"

And I remember all the judgement from mums in baby groups "oh you're so brave going back to work full time. I couldn't do it, I'd miss my child too much"

That was a crappy response from your head and so called friends!

My toddler was poorly and I had two days off to be at home with him (which I am fully entitled to and be paid for as well

Where I teach, things like this are quite strict and we are not entitled to days off paid for sick toddlers. We have time off unpaid or if it’s something more serious, it would have to go to the governors to be approved.

I was a teacher for 20 years.

You absolutely can work full time in teaching with two small children.

It's a lot harder than many full time jobs because the time inside the classroom isn't just the job.

There are some jobs you turn up to. Do your 9-5 and leave. Other jobs you are expected to work essentially unpaid overtime to get the job done - lots of management jobs are like that.

Teaching is like that. It's not the hours in the classroom that are the problem, it's the fact that this weekend you need to mark 90 mock papers (3 for each of your year 11 class).

If you don't have small kids, you just do it. If you do have small kids you need a partner or family to look after them outside the classroom hours in term time.

A lot of people with small kids do drop down to part time once they realise how tricky the workload is going to be.

It's none of their business, OP. They all need to wind their necks in. PARTICULARLY your boss, who should be quietly supportive of whatever you decide to do or be at risk of discriminating against you.

You have solid childcare in place and you get all the school holidays off. You can more than make this work.

I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old and have worked full time since both of them were 8 months old. And I don't get 13 weeks' holiday a year or have grandparents to provide childcare. What I do have is a husband who does his fair share of pick ups and drop offs, and a nursery we are very happy with.

The children are absolutely fine.

Go back full time, make a decision each year if you / DH working full time is working for you, do what works best.

I'm just impressed your parents are committed to three days childcare for two kids under 3

If you're happy then don't second guess yourself. You've got great childcare and you'll have the full school holidays off with your children seems like a great decision to me.

I did it with three kids. Its not easy, but it is possible, I am a GP, so not an 'easy' job ...

I find full time work and young family pretty easy. My husband and I share responsibility and we have a cleaner. We are also both organised and share mental load.

I would be contacting your union asap, not sure what the teacher HR equivalent is, but then also. What your boss said was discrimination and they need to be pulled up for it. It is absolutely not acceptable and they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it.

Our husband's all pick up the slack and all annoy their bosses with constant absences/repeated requests to work from home to stay with a sick child/attend xyz/do a certain thing.

The workplace culture needs to change then - the men have equal responsibility for parenting and all that entails, they aren’t picking up the slack.