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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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17
KarmaCaramello · 29/04/2024 11:10

Lottie2shoes · 29/04/2024 11:05

@KarmaCaramello
Counter protests for what exactly? I don't see other people expecting counter protests for anything but as soon as some Muslims have done or said anything, suddenly there are cries for the counter protests.

There has been so many far right opinions in the press recently, some from our very own Mps. Yet I did not hear anyone saying there should be counter protests to "prove" that you do not agree.
Why should we always have to 'prove' to the public via protests that we do not agree.

I am a very private person. You are not going to get me up on a platform explaining away someone else's opinion/ rhetoric?
If you really want to know how I feel, come and ask me and I will tell you.
There are protests going on London about Palestine right now. I have never been. But all I have heard is negative stuff from some people whereas the majority of them seemed to be fine.

Why would I publicly protest to be tarred with the same brush as them?
Muslims always get a bad rep in the media, would I want to be seen as part of that?
No I would never counter protest in public. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with other protests. Only way to find out is to ask me or get to know me.
The people that do know me, from all different walks of life I would like to add, know my opinions and my feelings.

Counter protests for the violence, terrorism and extremism you mentioned yourself.

its not about you personally. If a group has a violent extremist faction, and no one in the wider group - community leaders, organisations, representatives - condemns it, makes statements of separation, and protests those extremist actions…how can you ask those outside the group to assume they don’t support it?

inamarina · 29/04/2024 11:11

Primroseoil · 29/04/2024 10:59

I can't understand why there are no women protesting? Do the women feel strongly enough that they do not want a caliphate or do those radical Islamists marching in Hamburg not allow women attend protests? Women silenced. And yes @KarmaCaramello where are the counter protesters & have Mosque leaders called out & distanced themselves from these men calling for a caliphate.

I read there was a much smaller, separate group of women at the protest in Hamburg. Around 80 of them, standing about 10 meters behind the men and carrying similar signs.

Hamburger Morgenpost

Demo gegen „Islamfeindlichkeit“ in Hamburg – großes Polizeiaufgebot am Steindamm

Nordrhein-Westfalens Innenminister Herbert Reul (CDU) fordert schon lange ihr Verbot, die Hamburger CDU schloss sich der Forderung jüngst an: Gemeint ist

https://www.mopo.de/hamburg/gibts-gewalt-islamisten-prediger-ruft-zur-demo-gegen-islamfeindlichkeit-auf/

DBSFstupid · 29/04/2024 11:13

blimeyslimey · 29/04/2024 07:38

I’m interested in all the people accusing Fox News of being biased whilst simultaneously refusing to recognize their own bias.

in the 70s/ 80s animal rights campaigning was more of a Thing. Most campaigners were peaceful but a few were extremists who engaged in direct action of various sorts. Now animal rights was a small movement, so a small percentage of a small movement is not such a big issue. Especially as, as far as I am aware, they never killed anyone.

There are an awful lot of Muslims. They are a huge population. So even a ‘small minority’ of Muslims being extremists is a lot of people. And they are very extreme. Much more so than the 1970s/80s animal rights people.

it is worrying. If you have a large population that produces a minority who kill people, that wants to impose its woman disadvantaging laws on its population living in the West, , that wants to impose its blasphemy ideals on everyone on pain of death. That is a problem.

Are posters here aware that a teacher is still in hiding in the UK ( which means he has lost all his friendship groups and community and home and career, everything, it’s deeply traumatic) who has had his life utterly destroyed, because he gave a school sanctioned lesson on free speech using what happened with the Charlie Hebdo murders as an excuse?

Did posters here hear the Anti Social episode on radio 4 based on the boys who took a Koran into school and dropped it on the floor, and the young autistic boy who did this has received death threats and was utterly incapacitated and suicidal with terror and his mum was filmed crying and begging with apology at the mosque in the Muslim community, like she was at some Sharia court, in a desperate bid to save her son? And the ‘respectable’ Muslim representative on AntiSocial talked of how dear and venerated the Koran was to Muslims and how terrible it was for it to touch the floor. But when asked about the death threats to the teenage child ( who remember was in an extreme and terrified state of mental distress) laughed and said. ‘Oh boys will be boys, that’s just what boys are like’.
Let that sink in.

There is a problem. We should uphold values of tolerance in all communities. We should uphold our rule of law in all communities. We should not let fear or being called names, mean we are to scared to stand up to one group of people over another.

The posters here pretending there is not an issue, sneering at Fox News, are of the same mentality as those who, when whistle blowers were trying to get police and social services to take action to protect the teenage girls being raped and sexually tortured by men from predominantly Muslim communities in Rotherham ( and many other places, and it’s still going on), turned their faces away and doubtless sneered, ‘ did you read that in the Daily Mail?, because they were more concerned with not being seen as racist, in their own eyes and others, than they were about safeguarding children from sexual abuse

It’s not anti-racist to refuse to see a concern in front of you. It’s a failing, not a principle.

Edited

Excellent post.

Isnt it interesting that people on here are determined to shut down debate under the guise of 'Islamaphobia', ridiculing her for watching Fox News and sneering and belittling her.

This is more frightening to me.

They think that CNN MSNBC BBC etc represent the holy grail of truth. That there is only one side of a debate.
Why is that?

I wonder what these now adults have been taught at school.
I was brought up to believe that debate was healthy and to be able to look at both sides of the story.

They cannot see what is happening in front of them.
This is far more dangerous.
It's like a cult.

You only have to look at mumsnet when these sort of discussions come up to see exactly where we are.

I work around the world and I see first hand how free speech has been shut down in the western world.
Insidiously, slowly over the last 20 years.
Yes this is FRIGHTENING.

toomanyy · 29/04/2024 11:16

KarmaCaramello · 29/04/2024 11:05

My tender sensibilities of opposing Islamic rule? Why don’t you travel to Iran and see if it seems so precious then. I assume you’re a woman of course.

if I am part of a group with a sizeable violent extremist faction and none of the rest of the group condemns it, how can I demand people assume I don’t agree? You are taking people for idiots.

So Muslims should protest in the UK because they can't in Iran? Your logic makes no sense. Do you think Muslims are one homogenous body?

So why not go and protest yourself? Why do Muslims need to take time off work and lose earnings to make you feel better?

Primroseoil · 29/04/2024 11:18

inamarina · 29/04/2024 11:11

I read there was a much smaller, separate group of women at the protest in Hamburg. Around 80 of them, standing about 10 meters behind the men and carrying similar signs.

Hamburger Morgenpost

Thanks for the link👍

OP posts:
Lemoncakeandcoffee · 29/04/2024 11:18

zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 10:56

@Lemoncakeandcoffee I cannot speak for the whole of the ME nor do I pretend to. I've lived in this particular country for ten years now and yes,it's extremely tolerant. We have a Jewish Synagogue,a Sikh temple,the most beautiful Catholic Catherdal,many Indian places of worship,many Christian churches. All are very well attended and all are very welcome. We live shoulder to shoulder with the local wonderful Muslim citizens who are kind,tolerant,respectful and all round lovely people. I absolutely love living here and I wouldn't go back to the UK with all it's ugly divisiveness if my life depended on it. Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

How do you deduce that I have a narrative from that? I just don’t like misinformation. You are the one with a narrative stating something as fact that is based on your anecdotal experiences. I am sure that parts of the ME are diverse and tolerant but as a whole it isn’t. Your experiences and opinions are just that.

Lottie2shoes · 29/04/2024 11:19

@KarmaCaramello But that is just it. There has been so much religious leaders, public figures condemning the bad stuff that happens at every turn. Please do not tell me you haven't come across this.
Especially since this is something you obviously want to happen. You should have come across many, many, many condemnations.
Surely you have not been living under a rock.
Now when I say I haven't counter protested, I was talking about your average Joe.
Why should your average Muslim on the street have to publicly protest to prove they are not affiliated with some randoms with opinions.
If they want to, then good on them but generally most of us are just going through daily life as it is. We do not have to feel inclined to keep proving we are good people by keep counter protesting every time someone speaks.
It is not expected from anyone else so why should we constantly?

Anyway I am done now. Feel like I have over invested myself. Time to go back to real world!!
Peace and happiness to all.

BBKP · 29/04/2024 11:21

Fox news is not renowned for it’s accuracy…

toomanyy · 29/04/2024 11:23

Lottie2shoes · 29/04/2024 11:19

@KarmaCaramello But that is just it. There has been so much religious leaders, public figures condemning the bad stuff that happens at every turn. Please do not tell me you haven't come across this.
Especially since this is something you obviously want to happen. You should have come across many, many, many condemnations.
Surely you have not been living under a rock.
Now when I say I haven't counter protested, I was talking about your average Joe.
Why should your average Muslim on the street have to publicly protest to prove they are not affiliated with some randoms with opinions.
If they want to, then good on them but generally most of us are just going through daily life as it is. We do not have to feel inclined to keep proving we are good people by keep counter protesting every time someone speaks.
It is not expected from anyone else so why should we constantly?

Anyway I am done now. Feel like I have over invested myself. Time to go back to real world!!
Peace and happiness to all.

Peace and happiness to all.

Peace and happiness to you too Flowers

Lemoncakeandcoffee · 29/04/2024 11:24

Namechange666 · 29/04/2024 10:21

Extremists of any kind are bad news. They have their own mentality and no one will change that.

Well said. 👏

Idontfinkso · 29/04/2024 11:26

Terrified? Yes YABU for being so fearful of something called for by extremists

zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 11:27

@Lemoncakeandcoffee How is what I said misinformation? I'm here,on the ground so to speak as I have been for the past decade and what I say is true and relates to this country only. I'm stating as fact that this country is religiously diverse and religiously tolerant because it is. It's not 'anecdotal' it's fact.

newbeggins · 29/04/2024 11:28

No I'm not concerned at all.

I'm so impressed by the lovely young people I come across and think they will be much better decision makers than my generation have been.

I'm also always consistently impressed by people who I come across that are Muslim and from an ethnic background.

AllesAusLiebe · 29/04/2024 11:33

Idontfinkso · 29/04/2024 11:26

Terrified? Yes YABU for being so fearful of something called for by extremists

Do you find far-right extremists worrying? Are they worse than those cuddly Islamists at this demo?

The last time I checked, extremists have been responsible for some pretty appalling stuff. When they get together and mobilise, aided by the internet and spurred on by a war that is taking place halfway across the world, I'd say that's pretty concerning, irrespective of which part of the political spectrum they belong to.

aModernClassic · 29/04/2024 11:35

Solgrass · 29/04/2024 06:53

Interesting that all the posters mocking the OP for using Fox News, as a source.

Not discrediting this has actually happened. You’re not interested that there are people calling for a caliphate but it does interest you someone uses Fox News?

Also, it’s using the words ‘solution’ on the march in Germany, we all know what that is alluding to. I can see from the posters on here already, that that wouldn’t bother them much either.

This whole, YABU to be scared is the same gaslighting nonsense that’s used to silence women and children.

So yes, OP. YANBU if you are scared

This. Gaslighting the OP and focusing on the Fix news reference.

Lemoncakeandcoffee · 29/04/2024 11:39

zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 11:27

@Lemoncakeandcoffee How is what I said misinformation? I'm here,on the ground so to speak as I have been for the past decade and what I say is true and relates to this country only. I'm stating as fact that this country is religiously diverse and religiously tolerant because it is. It's not 'anecdotal' it's fact.

Yet you don’t state which country this is, just in the Middle East? Then accuse people of having narratives because they reply to you on the basis of location you have given? Say which country it is then and then perhaps the awful persecution of minorities in the Middle East and relating studies that have been done on that persecution are not applicable to your particular location.

Teapot13 · 29/04/2024 11:42

I wouldn’t worry about a caliphate being established in Germany but I worry this will cause people to support AfD.

Primroseoil · 29/04/2024 11:43

AllesAusLiebe · 29/04/2024 11:33

Do you find far-right extremists worrying? Are they worse than those cuddly Islamists at this demo?

The last time I checked, extremists have been responsible for some pretty appalling stuff. When they get together and mobilise, aided by the internet and spurred on by a war that is taking place halfway across the world, I'd say that's pretty concerning, irrespective of which part of the political spectrum they belong to.

Thanks. I just feel with social media etc marches like this can spring up in any country at any time.
It makes me feel very uneasy to think a radial group of men want to change life as us westerners know it to suit themselves!

OP posts:
zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 11:45

@Lemoncakeandcoffee I thought I made it clear that I was speaking for the country I live in only and not the whole of the ME,which as I'm sure you know is made up of many different countries.

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 29/04/2024 11:49

It's all very worrying - both religious extremism and right wing extremism. The increase in attacks on all protected characteristics in the run up to and after the Brexit referendum, the Tories current rhetoric on disabled people in the hope of scrounging up some extra votes. The increasing polarization of views and opinions where you agree 100% or you're THE ENEMY.

In this case the right wing is using, and promoting, islamphobia to whip up fear and offer itself as the solution.

Lemoncakeandcoffee · 29/04/2024 11:49

zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 11:45

@Lemoncakeandcoffee I thought I made it clear that I was speaking for the country I live in only and not the whole of the ME,which as I'm sure you know is made up of many different countries.

Yes I do know that thank you. So as you are using your particular country as an example, why is the only location you seem prepared to share is that it’s in the Middle East?

wayfairer · 29/04/2024 11:49

I am more confused and concerned about Germanys stance on an actual genocide/holocaust taking place live on social media and their support for it than news reports telling me i should be worried about some a tiny minority wanting a caliphate! Like seriously Germany is a disgrace for supporting actual genocide yet again. Try speaking to actual Muslims they will tell you you can't just wave a wand and bring in a caliphate! There is not 1 country in the world today with a caliphate. There are kingdoms, kingship, nepotism, dictatorship and corruption!
So yes I do think you abu to be worried. Try turning the news off and getting out to a green space might help.

SuziQuinto · 29/04/2024 11:57

Although Islamism is very right wing too, of course. Misogynistic, homophobic, antisemitic, against free speech.
I find it extraordinary that people can call for a Jihad on the streets of London, or any liberal democratic city. They obviously hate our freedoms.

zoom1982 · 29/04/2024 11:58

@Lemoncakeandcoffee Because that's my choice.

RedMark · 29/04/2024 11:58

I live in Germany. It's not going to happen. As pp has already said, the rise of the afd is far more worrying