Islam groups calling for caliphate in Germany, aibu to be petrified?

[Primroseoil]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/protesters-germany-call-islamic-fundamentalism-caliphate-solution

A much earlier poster suggested that a "benign caliphate" could be good for the UK. I'm not sure people actually get to choose whether they get a benign caliphate or a authoritarian, murderous nightmare caliphate though. So I think I'd rather remain caliphate free.

Not "interesting", accurate. Not mockery of OP, a warning. Fox News are liars and fabricators with a nasty agenda.

Frankly fed up here of RW apologists stroking their chin and saying " interesting" when what they really mean is to imply that the evil liberal elite are trying to frustrate the Will of the People [ in fact, the interests of the rich, powerful and white].

but that’s Afghanistan, the comment I replied to was saying it’s bad for women is most Islamic countries despite what they might tell us…what’s Happening in Afghanistan aside from being a direct consequence of repeated western intervention is unique to Afghanistan and you can’t say because women in Afghanistan are oppressed all muslim women in Muslim majority countries are

Yeah. you're right, the women in Afghanistan have no mouthpiece. They have no voice, no way of communicating with the world. You disgust me. sitting in your privileged little world, not giving a shit about the suffering of countless women and girls. So hilarious! 😉😂

Sorry thats quite incoherent but the post I replied to was saying that life for Muslim women in Islamic countries wasn’t good despite what we’re told. Afghanistan is terrible and (the west is definitely partly responsible) but it’s not representative of the experience of Muslim women as a whole

I know how to use Wikipedia, thank you though! I wouldn't personally offer it as a source as it is unreliable and I wouldn't demand someone click through all the references to check that it is correct, I would just offer the original source as the source if I were trying to prove my point. However, this is not a dissertation and it's entirely irrelevant - the poster said thousands and so I responded thousands, that's it; I did no research and didn't expect anyone else to either, I assumed that was obvious so I apologise if not. Your next factoid is very interesting though, I was simply going with the British Army website's claim there are approx. 450 muslims (Religion (mod.uk)), I didn't know so many are trying to join and failing. That does look worthy of investigation, though not necessarily on this thread, or by me!

👏👏👏

Me too.

Are you for real? Are you suggesting that the women being beaten, killed and arrested are loving it? Winner of the stupidest comment on the thread. For your information the men are actually backing the women up and some have been shot dead for doing it. It’s not just the women who have had enough.

obviously not saying that but what I was referring to was a post that said life isn’t good for women in Islamic countries despite what ‘they’ tell us.

my point is that Afghanistan is not representative of all Muslim countries

How well do lesbian women do in Muslim countries out of curiosity. Can they be free to be themselves.

my friends in the U.K. who are gay women and also Muslim are either terrified of their families finding out or have faced some horrific abuse. Consequently their mental and physical health has been significantly impacted.

Women in most Islamic countries are constrained by religious laws.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

But do you not see a problem with speaking for them?

You mean just like Britain, the USA and every other capitalist country?

Sorry, what? You’re saying that Sharia law should prevail over English secular law? In the UK? Have I understood that correctly?

The point is selective reporting and promoting news stories just to fit their agenda. In contrast to 1100 people demonstrating, hundreds of thousands have recently been on the streets of Germany protesting about the rise of the far right Alternative for Germany party - has Fox News covered that much larger story?

The guardian has written some really interesting pieces on the plight of Afghan women in the last couple of months. Sorry can't link, but if you're interested they're on there with a quick Google search. One point I did want to pick-up was your statement that the West is partly responsible for their plight. Can I ask why you say that? my over riding feeling is that when the West withdrew, the Afghans were left with the knowledge, skills, training and billions in funding to overthrow the Taliban but instead they put up zero resistance. Now the Afghan women are pleading for the wests interference again, whilst it's obvious that resistance and change must come from within.

The morality police run by men for men=female suffering.

I’m interested in your take on the below if you think what is happening in Germany is a RW lie? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064983-why-is-the-teacher-from-batley-still-in-hiding-if-we-do-not-have-a-problem-with-islamic-extremism-in-this-country

except... on this thread at least... literally nobody has said that. Because that is wrong.

indeed several of us have said that we abhor all religions because of their patriarchal and authoritarian ways. And invading countries and pushing people into that religion (see also forced conversion of Jews during the Spanish Inquisition) is wrong. Always.

So trying to set up (they won't succeed) a caliphate in Germany/Hamburg comes under that. It is not acceptable.

as several German posters have pointed out: yes it was around 1,000 men. (and a very small, separate, group of women) calling for a caliphate.

And as we have also pointed out we are more worried that the resulting publicity from this idiotic stunt may cause support for the far right parties, including the AfD who are making hideous gains, and may get them into parliament.

And that the AfD are very open about how they plan to repatriate non-germans who they see as undesireable, commit crimes, overstay their visas. But also people who have aquired German citizenship if they become "undesireable", commit crimes, go on demos etc will be stripped of that citizenship and deported. And that includes people like me. Because while I'm not brown so i would probably last longer than someone from, say, Syria, i regularly go on demos (particuly the anti-right ones) and am also therefore not safe.

Slippery slope and all that. And that is our big worry. Because we can see it happening

the women in Iran who are protesting the beatings, jailing and killing of women who reject the hijab have repeatedly asked the rest of the world to share their stories. So we do.

the women of Afghanistan don't have as much internet access as those in Iran i suspect, but i am very aware of RAWA and will amplify their voices as much as i can which is what they ask of us.

2 examples. Am i stepping in and speaking for them or am i amplifying their voices. If you are ok with what is happening to them, i suspect you think it may be the former. If you are listening to what they are saying, the latter. Your choice.

An African country (i want to say which one but shamefully can't remember, begins with G) has re-legalised FGM. Hibo Wardere is devastated and asking us to spread info about FGM. Is that speaking for them or amplifying their voices?

Frankly? When they ask, i will speak up, join marches, join boycotts. Because that is how they get heard. Not by saying "well, i'm not one of them, i'd better not say anything because I'll be accused of White Feminism" [capitals intended to show it is A Thing rather than just because i'm a feminist who happens to be white]

Gambia.

and yes, I completely agree. Talking about what’s happening in to the women in Afghanistan or the girls subjected to FGM in Gambia (and too many other countries) isn’t speaking “for them”. It’s amplifying their voices.

thank you for putting it so eloquently.