Islam groups calling for caliphate in Germany, aibu to be petrified?

[Primroseoil]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/protesters-germany-call-islamic-fundamentalism-caliphate-solution

You implied that the protest was tolerated in Germany because it was islamists, and white supremacists wouldn't have been.

As requested by those wanting evidence, I'm providing an example of a similar size group of white supremacists protesting in the UK, not being shut down at all, in fact being egged on by a government minister.

We have freedom of speech in most of Europe. Therefore some protesters are going to say things we don't like. That shouldn't lead to scaremongering about caliphates, causing members of the public to be so petrified they have to start threads on MN about it.

That's not the same as saying the Nazis were far left and you know it.

IMO this is a new strategy to try to rehabilitate fascism and make "lefties" the enemy. Pretty transparent to me, but seems to be doing a good job on various posters on this thread.

I'm white, not mc but dh is..

I mean they were called National Socialists.

I'm not scared of Muslims or an impending caliphate. The vast majority of them are really nice people.

My husband is from Iran (I didn't have to convert, before anyone asks).

His family, that still live in Iran, are really lovely, modern people. They just live under a terrible regime.

I've had Muslims doctors and health visitors. Some of them have been fantastic at helping me.

I've been to Turkey a couple of times and I've always felt safe and respected there.

I bet you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a scary example of a democratic republic.

look at the data it speaks for itself, all the rest is just emotion and hype: Yes, I am MC, am I not allowed an opinion anymore.

Because, as you might remember, it was the not so nice men from ISIS who wanted to establish a caliphate.

That’s why people are jumpy. No one is saying that the majority of Muslim aren’t perfectly nice and that they are someone to be feared.

Also, can posters please stop banging on about Fix News. A couple of posters provided very varied German sources.

I would disagree that it isn't a large group. Over 1000 people gathering in one place to advocate for their cause. Imagine if they decide to gather in one place and....forcefully push... their cause....

Are you even in Germany, OP?

OFC it's not ideal when a minority of a large minority community reject the multiculturalism that allowed them to live where they do, but free speech means they can say what they like and that's a feature of our multicultural democracy. Not everything can be an upside.

Even if - big if - a caliphate eventually comes about in Western Europe, it won't be in our lifetime.

What does concern me more is growing antagonism in public life and between minority groups. I think we are on track for more marching, protesting and even rioting in our major cities. Again, though, this is probably a natural life stage of a multicultural society struggling to find equilibrium.

I'm too old for it all, though and I'm moving from city to country.

I can understanmd your confusion and ignorance - but it would only take you a little googling to understand why they used that name.

The Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei was formed from the German Worker's Party. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian and pro-business. The "socialism" in the name was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes. Hitler regarded trade unions as his primary enemy since a general strike paralysed a right-wing coup in 1920.

In 1933 Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists and declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. The industrialists then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering assuring them that they would jettison democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

The far-right Nazis lost no time in outlawing rival parties and by the summer of 1933 more than 100,000 Socialists, Social Democrats, union officials, and other “radicals” had been persecuted and imprisoned.

They were socialists to some extent. The government was pretty heavily invested in social programs, industry, and infrastructure.

I saw the Fox news link, and I'm not bothering reading a jackanory article.

I don't want to derail the thread though to talk about the Nazis. It's gone a bit Godwin's Law 😂

Can someone help me understand all the "it's fox news" comments - are we saying they've photoshopped the article? Hired a thousand actors? Forced these men out onto the streets against their will just for an article?

IMO this is a new strategy to try to rehabilitate fascism and make "lefties" the enemy. Pretty transparent to me, but seems to be doing a good job on various posters on this thread.

The extreme left has always been as much of a problem as the extreme right. The obvious examples being Stalinism and Nazism, respectively. It's being at the extreme that is dangerous. There's nothing new about noticing that.

‘YABU for treating Fox News as being even remotely credible. ‘

But it is all over Reddit, you tube , eyewitness accounts.
Does DW count in your pantheon of sources to be believed?

Anyone who thinks Islam is a tolerant religion please draw a picture of the prophet Mohammed and put it in your window, I will await your fatwa announcement on the news. It is not a peaceful religion. Those talking about the far right make me laugh. There is nothing more far right than Islam itself.
To be clear I am not discriminating against Muslims, most of whom are perfectly nice reasonable people I am saying Islam is far right.
Women are second class citizens
Homophobia is condoned
Animal cruelty is condoned
Arranged marriage
Honour killings
Female circumcision
If you are scared of the far right then you should be scared of Islam.

@biscuitnut do you feel a little shiver inside whenever you go to the hospital and encounter a scary Muslim doctor whose religion is Islam?

Obviously Fox News are fairly right leaning news outlet. If the rally had been led by a moderate group calling for a ceasefire in Palestine, but one idiot brought along a more extremist sign, there's a decent chance Fox would use that sign as evidence that the rally was more extreme than it was, so I think people are justified in being sceptical.

From what I can tell though, the rally was actually held by a banned Islamist group, and no one has actually managed to find anything wrong with the article itself (that I've seen). The main dispute is how worried we should be by events like this.

@Parkingt111 i was about to write similar! 🤣

@Springchickenonion 😂😂

Not worried about the far right plotters? Just the Muslims?

I suggest you broaden your media.

Nope. I love my Muslim doctor, he is a terrific chap. I live in a very predominantly Muslim area. I know and I am friends with many Muslims that that doesn’t mean I think the religion is above criticism. I am catholic and I don’t get offended when people point out child abuse in the Catholic Church. Good it needs pointing out. Islam is a fascist black and white religion. Ask the gay guys who get chucked off buildings, oh you can’t they are all dead.

No, elements of Islam are politicised and extreme. (Same as Christianity and most other religions.)

Which is no comfort if you find yourself staring down the barrel of a fatwa, but it's still an important distinction. The fact that it won't be a delegation of your local neighbours (mainstream Muslim accountants, doctors, businesswomen etc) who come to fulfil the fatwa is significant. It's not a technicality.

It is not the entire religion that is so prescribe and proscriptive.