To wish I didn't have my daughter

[gingerbreadbunny]

I have 4 children, 3 are lovely easy children and 1 who whinges and whines all day about anything and everything.
She's really hard work, the other 3 go straight to bed but not her she's up fussing back and forth for hours, it's exhausting.
She doesn't ever want to go anywhere and will make everything about her by just being difficult and awkward, she won't do as she's told,
if she doesn't get her own way she screams and tantrums and ruins everyone else's day.
She constantly and deliberately upsets her brothers and sister who have had enough, she'll only play with them if she gets her own way and if they don't want to play her way she'll ruin it for them or won't play.
She's 6 and I love her but I just know life would be so much happier for us all if we hadn't had her.
I feel like she sucks all the energy out of me every single day.
She always wants everything to be about her and will deliberately talk over any siblings who try and talk to me.
If I hold another's hand she'll pull them off me so she can hold my hand instead.
I just don't have any energy left, she's completely depleting me and dh.
She is full of anger and hatred and is wearing us down.
She can be lovely when it suits her but it's usually short lived, just until something doesn't go her way.

OP I could have written your post. 4 children here and the third was so unlike any of the others. Tantrums from 1.5 years right through to age 6. Stubbornness, anger, lashing out, throwing things. We were exhausted, confused and thoroughly worn out as the other two had not been like this, and it was really impacting family life.
We realised that he was feeling left out as the older two siblings stuck together and then the baby was getting lots of attention. He also finds it hard to express himself as is very shy and self conscious.
If it makes you feel any better, once he reached age 6 he started to grow out of it. He is now 8 and soo much better. He does have his moments of anger when tired/hungry or bickering with his older siblings, but he is generally very happy. When we ask him about his younger memories he doesn't remember any of the tantrums etc, he only talks about happy memories.

Consequences have to be felt and consistent - my stepdaughter is exactly like this and it is exhausting. Firm boundaries/expectations and not backing down, serious consequences that matter to her and making space to give one to one attention and do things she enjoys helps somewhat. But some kids are just hard work. Helps me when I focus on her good qualities and do things that help us all lean into those, I do often resent the focus her behaviour takes away from my own DCs tho.

Very wise words. I wish I had heard this advice when we were going through it. But this rings so true for me!

Some friends are having success with this parenting programme with their 9yr old daughter who sounds a bit like yours. Can be fantastic and loveable but also hard hard work and is waiting for an assessment. The blurb makes it sound as if it’s only for violent kids but I don’t think that’s right. They are doing an evening parenting class based on these principles. https://www.partnershipprojectsuk.com/non-violent-resistance-nvr/parents/

Op if the school paint a different child then that could be a sign your child isn't nd. What you have described really could be character and abit of spoilt behaviour, I don't think a child who is that obviously bad behaved on the spectrum would turn their behaviour on like a tap, that said that's a question you would ask the relevant health professional. Just present all the facts and that would include saying that the child has no issues at school. Lots of posters saying all these traits are signs of nd but many of the symptoms described are in ppl who are not nd, for example being insecure. I really don't think you should have a specific outcome in mind , i think you should speak to your gp and the health professionals and go from there.

I know that replies on here are often very scathing of anyone perceived to be "diagnosing" people. I am not a psychiatrist and can't diagnose anyone. I will merely comment from my own personal experience (which is surely any of us can) and say that this sounds VERY like me as a child and that I now have an autism diagnosis and am awaiting ADHD assessment. Multiple family members have also been diagnosed since my own childhood, including my children and my sibling. Neurodiversity very often goes overlooked in girls, who often tend to mask well/hold it in at school and fall apart at home. Again, I am NOT trying to say that this is the case in your situation. Merely that it is perhaps worth exploring more in your search for answers....

Sounds like my dd. Hugely strong-willed; punishments meant nothing to her; she genuinely didn’t see why she should do as she was told - right from toddlerdom.

she was expert at hurting our feelings - mine particularly.

she seemed hugely bright to everyone, but was consistently below average in class

ADHD diagnosed in early teens and medication prescribed.

it was like a switch being thrown. She surged to the top of her classes, and has been much, much happier in herself. She is a pleasure to have around now.

@Katbum I hope you're not serious! Why would I deliberately cause pain to my daughter?

I just had my adult autism test and diagnosis and my mum came to the interview and basically described me exactly as you're describing your daughter when I was her age. I'm 29 now.

I didn't get diagnosed until the beginning of this month because I just presented like a strong willed, jealous, controlling child who would only play with people if I could control the narrative, and life with a larger family was too unpredictable and ever changing that I would have "tantrums" if it didn't go my way.

I've been called manipulative and selfish all my life and I've got really vivid memories of being called a primadonna.

I wouldn't rule out ND.

And even if you don't intend on considering it for seeking a diagnosis you could still adopt parenting strategies like those that are catered for kids with autism, like low demand approaches. Your daughter is clearly very different to your other kids.

I dislike people automatically labelling a challenging child but in my own personal experience of 3 children - the behaviours you describe are extremely similar to my middle child who has ASD (PDA) & ADHD.

Please, please, please read about autistic masking, especially in girls, before commenting on any further posts on this topic..... "coping" in school and falling apart at home is absolutely classic and a very, very well recognised phenomenon (it was specifically commented on on the diagnostic report of one of my children and the clinical psychologist said it is something she hears all the time).

As a late-diagnosed autistic woman, I was given practically every other negative label under the sun before my frankly revalatory diagnosis..... and I was only diagnosed after multiple other relatives were diagnosed first (because it simply wasn't recognised in the '70s/'80s/'90s). Especially in girls. Many of us masked absolutely hugely in order to simply survive.

I'm not saying that the OP's child is likely to be neurodivergent and I hope I made it very clear in my previous post. I am simply not qualified to say. But a lot of what she is describing sounds VERY familiar to me, and autism is chronically under-diagnosed in girls and women. I am absolutely adamant that it is worth considering and exploring further, of course while keeping an open mind.

If I had been diagnosed sooner, I would have avoided a lifetime of family judgement and self-loathing and so many more things I dont want to even speak about. That is why many of us are in favour of anyone questioning the possibility to explore it at least. It is absolutely not about labelling, but about vital understanding.....

I don't think you can punish her out of this behaviour as some PPs have suggested. In general, I'm not a fan of punishment, but in this case I expect it will achieve nothing positive. Something is going on with her. I have no idea whether she has additional needs or if there are issues around attachment or if she is experiencing anxiety. It could be any one of those things or something else entirely. But I would certainly look into professional help because she sounds very unhappy and is showing in every way she can that she needs help.

In any case, it sounds as though you've got into something of a negative feedback loop, where you react to her negatively, then she reacts to you negatively and the cycle continues. One thing I would warn against is getting into the habit of thinking of her as "hard work" or assigning immutable traits to her character. That can become a self-fulfilling prophesy for a young child who is changing every day.

Oh and it took years to diagnose as my child masked in school and was academic. The defiance and strong willed behaviour you describe was how my child started from age 2 which I also thought was just the terrible twos. Sensory overload and anxiety plays a big part and once you have an understanding of that, you realise that they see the world differently. My child is still challenging but we’ve learnt to accept it’s a mental disability so our perception has changed. For a long time I resented the behaviours and impact on family life.

Also OP to answer your question about diagnosis, do the NHS AQ-10 on her behalf. Take this to the GP, explain her behaviours. They will make a referral if she scores enough on the AQ-10.

You can also do the AQ-50 although they usually send you a self report form, which will likely contain this anyway, and then you post this back to them.

When you get to the assessment side of things there's a history interview, as she's young really it'll be about her present struggles and presentation. They are aware girls score higher at masking compared to boys.

Then she will be invited to do further assessments, the most common tool is called an ADOS, and it's a series of different tasks which screen for things like apraxia, aphantasia, body language and non-verbal communication, social understandings etc but for children it is mostly play based.

They're essentially looking for deficits in 3 key areas.

For children as well they may request feedback from other agencies or wish to observe her in setting. She might get on well with other kids at school and be a dream for teachers but for someone with a keen eye it's easy to pick up on things like structured play over imaginative play, social cognition etc that teachers won't necessarily be keeping an eye out for in someone who is well behaved and flies under the radar.

I don't know if this is the sort of answer to your question that you were wanting, and I know it will vary region to region but I hope it tells you what you can expect if you do decide to proceed.

Reported. I grew up undiagnosed autistic and likely ADHD in the 1980s and believe me I had my share of smacking and physical punishment. Guess what....Still autistic...just more traumatised! I also have multiple, even worse, family stories of people trying to "discipline out the neurodivergence" dating back to the 1950s. Guess what....that way lies mental illness, addiction and prison. Autism and ADHD cannot be punished away! We simply suffer more. This is my very real and raw lived family experience.

you could be describing my niece by what you have written. Very bright, does fine in school and is well behaved but at home is extremely challenging and makes life very difficult for her siblings. She has been having regular counselling and this has helped a bit, a lot of her difficult behaviours stem from intense anxiety but it was suggested she might be autistic which has now officially been diagnosed. The compliant behaviour at school is due to her masking so by then time she is home she is exhausted from pushing against her impulses that she can become aggressive, rude, belligerent and extremely nasty to those around her. I would look in to getting her assessed by a professional as I know how exhausting her behaviour has been for my brother and his wife, it puts a huge strain on the whole family.

I agree with this and would personally go straight to the AQ50 simply because it has more questions and can therefore capture more nuance......the AQ10 alone risks missing certain traits depending on how a person presents.

No No NO!

It’s the combination of traits that indicate ND. Not taken in isolation.

Thinking a child is ‘spoilt’ is typicak
of those who don’t know about ASD behaviour.

Shes not ‘spoilt’ she’s ND.

I have 2 dc. I’ve spoilt them both . Ones ND, ones NT.

@Katbum I don’t understand what’s wrong with that approach in relation to ND children? A lot of ND kids just don’t respond to ‘normal’ parenting/discipline and often it means reevaluating everything and choosing your battles.

Yes it’s very easy and straightforward for a parent of NT kids to say ‘we don’t have screens at meal times’ and sit together nicely but if having an IPad on allows your autistic child to actually sit at the table happily and long enough to eat a good meal every day then does it really matter? That’s what you ask yourself as a parent. Is this really a big deal? And often it isn’t.

My kid is like this. He's autistic (formally diagnosed).
With all due respect to nurseries and schools, they often don't spot these things. Also these kinds of kids can be very different in different environments, some are better/worse at home/school.
Honestly do yourself a favour and start seeking an assessment, before things get a lot worse and you get more worn down by it.

How can a mother talk about her own child in this way?

Instead of posting of here, contact your GP and get help for yourself and your child.

Poor kid.

If she comes downstairs after being sent to her room take her back. Once she knows you mean it she'll start accepting it. The worst thing you can do is let your child control you.

@gingerbreadbunny It might help to make a written record of these behaviours. You can take it with you to the doctor.

Have a notebook or a diary. For each page divide into columns: Date, Time, Behaviour, Setting.

Write what time the behaviour started and the time the behaviour ceased. That will show duration.

Describe the behaviour objectively (write only what you see and hear, not your interpretation of what you see or hear).

In the column for setting write where she was and what was happening around her at the time the behaviour started. Eg: in the lounge room we were playing a board game or watching a movie etc.

This will show if there is a pattern and could help identify causes or triggers.

I reckon she's swamped and unhappy in the litter. She's number 3 and a girl with a very slightly older sister. I'd say she is unhappy about being where she is in the birth order. I'll assume that with 4 there's an awful lot of sharing and compromise. She shines at school because she's an individual and solo there. She causes upset at home as she feels that she doesnt get attention so she makes it. I wouldn't run to get a diagnosis of anything. I'd just look at her being unhappy at home currently. It's not your fault, it's life.