"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

What I notice is something a little different from the standard posturing. Simon Hall says he had a good discussion with Rishi Sunak. But everything from that point onwards looks very negative; from the cancelling of the meeting, to the headlines now, and finally, the statement that Ireland expects the UK to honour its CTA commitment.

Logic suggests that actually it's not so clear cut. If the CTA deals with this unambiguously then Simon Hall would have an excellent point. But actually, I don't think it does say that. And I think that is the real problem because the UK can just say no and will not be breaking an actual legal commitment. It may be breaking a diplomatic commitment and that is different

The thing that gets me is we have a housing shortage in Ireland, we have a shortage of tradespeople, we have strapping young men(and women) coming to Ireland looking to live and work. Is the answer not obvious? We train them up(if they want to obviously), they earn a great wage, everybody gets houses, we all live happily ever after. Obviously it would take a few years to get things in proper motion, training takes time but tradespeople earn great salaries, they could set up their own businesses eventually if they wanted, they could really thrive and we solve our worker and housing crisis. Is this being encouraged already? I know I'm being very simplistic but it seems like a good idea to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Harris! No offence intended. Simon Harris not Hall.

I don't think the UK government care about breaking any legal commitments anyway!
We have had years of this with Brexit.

3/4 of all recent immigrants in Ireland are Ukrainian.

According to the Irish Central Statistics Office, in the year up to April 2023 Ireland had 141,600 immigrants.

42,000 were Ukrainians.
29,600 were Irish citizens returning to Ireland
26,100 were EU citizens
4,800 were UK citizens
39,100 were from the rest of the world with the largest numbers being from India and Brazil.

Approx 64,000 people emigrated from Ireland.
The population increased by 97,600
The "natural" population increase was 20,000 (55,500 births, 35,500 deaths), the rest was due to immigration.

Ireland said the UK is not safe. These immigrants are taking their life in their own hands travelling through our land to their chosen destination.

Most of them get on a plane from the EU to Dublin and then throw their passports away.

You still need the agreement of the safe country to return people, in the same way we can’t just return to France

I agree with pp that the 100 Gardai is just for show

Thanks I totally agree. I have been horrified by the way UK (mostly English) governments (and Kings) have behaved in relation to Ireland. I think (hope) we can agree on that.

@Evanna13 yes but this matters. It will mean any domestic law changes are useless. Ireland would have to ask the EU to step in. If there is no active commitment on returns between the UK and Ireland, and I mean a legally binding one then that is all that can be done.

My suspicion is that this issue was probably on a list of things to look at post Brexit and never has been.

If I am right on that, I think Ireland would need to ask the EU for help or do what it might have to anyway, which is make returns directly to a country of origin or another EU jurisdiction.

I agree @bombastix that the CTA means v little to most English people and it’s not something anyone will rise up to defend. It is mostly one way traffic and benefits the Irish and Brits with Irish hereditary that travel back and forth a lot but really that’s it. I love the CTA and really hope it stays but the Irish government are foolish to think it’s sone trump card as most people in U.K. will go meh!
that’s not how I feel but i mentioned it to my colleagues today in diverse London and no body knew it was a thing less still cared about it.
irish influence in london is not what it was even 10 years ago ( sadly imo)

Definitely:)
I think the normal English and Irish people have so much in common and generally get on great. And relations between the two governments were getting to a good place pre Brexit.
It's such a shame the way things are now.

I wonder who forced the initial Irish to have to flee their homeland?

I am not sure what will happen.
I don't think the UK government will make it easy for Ireland anyway.

@Dulra
Belfast telegraph have a big article (don't need to subscribe to view)

Very few people seem to know about the CTA - certainly not the Ryanair person who told me off at City of Derry airport for using my driving licence as photo ID. SInce then Ryanair have tightened it up so that you need a passport before they will fly you on a UK domestic flight (I know not strictly CTA but you get the general drift).

I cannot imagine any serious person wants to end the CTA - it's our pre-Schengen Schengen, pre FOM FOM.

I think the Irish Government would be mad to assume that the UK Government will put the CTA above their immigration policy. They won't.

Who gets the major benefit of it? It's pretty weak to insist that what is, in legal terms, a gents agreement is going to fix returns when you have Simon Harris saying he's got s good relationship with Rishi Sunak when the practical end won't even meet to discuss. Rishi Sunak is desperate. He will just say no. This guy wants to give his own disabled citizens vouchers to live on. He is not a sympathetic kind of guy.

I don't think that the Irish government assume this at all but they are not going to come out and say the truth about what they really think of Rishi Sunak.

The major benefit of the CTA is between Ireland and NI. It benefits both countries here.
It also hugely benefitted Irish people in the past but not so many Irish going to the UK anymore.

If the CTA means we have to accept illegal migrants from France that have travelled through the UK (it doesn't) then the spotlight will quickly turn on the CTA in Westminster and why it exists and who gains from it and what it brings to the table. Do it's positives out weigh it's negatives? I say yes but that's what people with no skin in the game will start to ask.
If it becomes such a negative for the UK that people begin to question it's existence that would not be good for the Irish and the Brits that care about it (including me).

Matters very much to english and Irish people that travel and work between Ireland and Britain daily. Things only matter to you when they directly impact you. It has become a lot more important since Brexit and ensures Irish and UK citizens can not only travel but also work and study freely between the two nations. Not sure why people are so flippant about it. Dublin and Heathrow is one of the busiest flight routes in Europe.
Irish and UK citizens have the right to live, travel, work and study within the Common Travel Area.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/ireland-and-the-uk/common-travel-area-between-ireland-and-the-uk/#:~:text=The%20Common%20Travel%20Area%20(CTA,travel%20freely%20between%20both%20countries.

yes I know that - I am arguing for it! I benefit from it as do my family and many of my friends
But the majority of the UK population have never heard of it - don't really care about it and won't particularly defend it if push comes to shove - that's the point I am making
Most people have never been to Ireland and do not want to work there or live there - that's the situation.

I'm not saying the CTA means nothing. But it's not the cure for this. What could Ireland do, insist that the UK make passport checks within its own borders? No, it can't ask for that. Ireland won't get it. It would undermine the CTA anyway. That is presumably half the problem

I fail to see the issue here. The population density of Ireland is 72 people per square kilometre, compared with 279 people per square kilometre in the UK. Ireland has nearly four times as much room. And we all accept that Ireland is non-racist, inclusive and progressive. So what’s the problem? Surely, this is a win-win for all?

But the majority of the UK population have never heard of it - don't really care about it and won't particularly defend it if push comes to shove - that's the point I am making

I don't agree, a lot of people have heard of it, use it and would not want to lose it.

I hope you are right @Dulra but I don't think you are

hopefully the Irish Government will stop mentioning it and it won't become Westminster talking point (which would be a bad idea generally)

Re boar people, the majority are genuine refugees and that can't be argued with.

Who are the boar people? Are they like the wolves swimming over from the Belgium?