"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

Exactly!
Shame the UK govt are not playing game. That is the issue here.

I don’t think anyone would

Which country would say yes to large scale returns?

I am not talking about returns, I am talking about deportation to Rwanda.
That is why we have this issue in the first place. The UK are not accepting their fair share. They are deporting to Rwanda. That is why Ireland are having this issue.

Well it's worth remembering that when the UK was a member of the EU the Dublin Regulations didn't work either. You could never really make a return there either even when the UK was in. You could trace claims better.

But this article made the problem clear. The one refusal system in the EU does not work. It is not enforced. The UK cannot return so it's decided to divert to Rwanda. It will be interesting to see the approach of the ECHR court on that one; even after the UK courts have made their domestic rulings. If it works, it will be copied by many others. If it's rejected, I think the UK will be moving out of the ECHR altogether. I know someone will start saying but what about the GFA. However, that's what I mean about the UK changing. It has already.

But if the UK hadn’t left the Dublin regulation - wouldn’t France have had to accept people who had been fingerprinted in France. I didn’t understand why they left this agreement as it benefited the UK.

Most of Europe are still part of this Dublin agreement which aims to stop multiple claims.

It’s a really tiny amount and the EU barely use it, we accepted more than we returned overall

It’s for certain situations and not used much at all. All of the EU are seeing issues even with it in place

Yes if you meant the deportation rather than returns it is impacting Ireland, as it impacts behaviour. There was a fair bit of talk about how it wouldn’t, but it does. And yes it must feel very annoying, I’d probably feel the same.

The fair share argument is interesting though because it’s really talking about a fair share of trafficking networks, misery, profiteering, crush in boats and men with sticks etc

The only way to stop that is 100% returns, eg Albania recent policy. You could end the 1951 convention and put in place a central allocation centre for all claims where countries took a quota

It would stop trafficking but I’m not sure people really want that kind of set up

I can't imagine it will be accepted.

I'm with you. Why is it such an issue for Ireland when we're supposed to just roll over and put up with it?

I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people but as a pp says it's very rarely women and children always young men. And no I'm not racist but I can't see why migrants are complaining about living in old army camps when it is definitely safer than what they say they are escaping.

Of course it impacts behaviour and of course it impacts Ireland.

What's happening now all over Europe is a mess and it's only going to get worse. There needs to be some kind of solution with cooperation from all.

The issue as to compatibility with the ECHR was dodged during the passage of the Bill. The statement that was usually made was not.

I think probably even if the EcHR does provide for an injunction on this power being used I think the UK is going to ignore it. The UK has a pretty good compliance record. But I think the signs are they will just not comply. What happens afterwards will be interesting

I think it was the 0.1 or 1 % thing that people talked about.

But it does re route people

I agree it’s a mess and I can’t see international law changing soon although the June EP elections might see political change

This is a good article summarising the current thinking and policies in the EU. I have to agree with the first paragraph that with aging and declining populations in Europe we may soon be fighting over immigrants

www.reuters.com/breakingviews/eu-is-stuck-with-its-one-trick-refugee-policy-2023-10-09/#:~:text=If%20some%20countries%20don't,internal%20borders%20will%20stay%20open.

Though I think, for those of us who watch these things, the UK Gov will have imminently rather bigger domestic issues on the Rwanda scheme. Rishi Sunak's small diplomacy win is shortly to melt in the sun like a dropped summer ice cream.

Yes, it does seem to be the elephant in the room with them almost exclusively being young men, with the women, children and elderly people left at home.

If they were economic migrants, it would make a lot of sense for them to send their fit young men first to get financially established, before the rest of the family come over and join them; but then you need to be honest and not claim to be seeking asylum when you clearly are not.

Leaving your family behind in poverty a little longer until you can provide well for them when they subsequently come to join you in a richer country - or even stay where they are, but you can regularly send them money to vastly improve their lives - is entirely understandable. If you're fleeing war and in fear for your very life, what kind of a man would cheerfully abandon his wife and children to risk their lives there whilst he himself escapes to safety and prosperity?

Don't think poster was talking about its citizens as everywhere there is a very vocal minority who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland.

Dulra so if it’s a minority of citizens who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland, does that mean the majority welcome them?

Leaving your family behind in poverty a little longer until you can provide well for them when they subsequently come to join you in a richer country - or even stay where they are, but you can regularly send them money to vastly improve their lives - is entirely understandable. If you're fleeing war and in fear for your very life, what kind of a man would cheerfully abandon his wife and children to risk their lives there whilst he himself escapes to safety and prosperity?

i don’t know the particulars on who is coming to the uk, but refugees coming to Europe often come from refugee camps in their neighbouring countries like the Lebanon. They will leave their family in the camp and attempt to go to Europe hoping they can be reunified. The camps may be misery but the journey to Europe is extremely dangerous.

Also, in countries where men take a more public facing role they are simply more likely to be at risk in the case of political turmoil. Like in non fighting parts of Syria at the height of the conflict there, men were being plucked from the streets to join the army - forcing many to leave.

Do they get pps numbers? Can they work? Without a pps number, how can it be a better life.

What's the actual issue here?
That ireland doesn't want immigrants?

Basically Ireland are happy to take their fair share of immigrants and are doing so.

But they are unhappy about the high numbers of immigrants coming from the UK due to the threat of deportation to Rwanda.

Ireland want to return some of these to the UK but Rishi said he will not take returns from Ireland until France accept returns from the UK.

This has soured relations between UK and Ireland.

Rishi is talking about it as he can say this is evidence that the Rwanda plan is working and he was hoping this would give the Tories a boost in the elections.

However it is likely a storm in a teacup as the Rwanda plan is unlikely to be implemented in any large scale.

But the issue of asylum seekers in the EU and the UK will continue.

This seems a bit mixed, it’s making this many people reroute it’s already working due to the threat of deportation

People will be understandably annoyed but that small number is already changing behaviour

@Evanna13 true, we more than stood up. We are a small country. We need to attend to our own oxygen masks now.

"We are a small country".
Not this again. It gets wheeled out for anything from football results to racist immigration policies.

As a nation of emigrants, Ireland can and should take more immigrants.

The UK won't implement the Rwanda plan because logistically its too messy and its too expensive for taxpayers.
Rishi wants to look like he's taking a firm hand with immigration to get votes. It's all political.

It’ll be implemented I don’t think that’s in doubt

It’s taken ages to get through stages they’ll keep going

There’s some legal stuff that might happen as in pp but it’ll likely be overridden or ignored in some way