"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

IMO it’s the agreement argument that doesn’t stand up

I can see why people in Ireland are annoyed by extra migrants but I don’t think anything is there in relation to that

The agreement wouldn’t be for mass returns

I actually agree with you. The UK will never accept returns but Ireland at least has to try.

You can't expect the "UK" to keep an "eye" on everyone even if they wanted to.
Lets hope this will stop the boat people as its unfair on those that have to wait years sometimes to get a visia and cost thousand to get a Brit citizenship

Immigration is a massive issue and it is only going to get bigger.
I think every country has an ethical obligation to take their fair quota of immigrants ( and process them as quickly as possible).

The issue that Ireland are upset with is that the UK govt are not willing to do this and are letting it fall back on Ireland to clean up their mess.

No, you can’t you’re correct

People can move as they want, and without hardline measures like Aus a country just has to accept that

In a way the policy is ‘working’ as intended in that it’s a deterrent and motivates people to leave

Of course wherever people go instead many are going to be annoyed.

I think we need to work out a system without trafficking networks. That will take a huge change though in international law and we’ll probably cycle through some other promises by the EU mostly before then

@Evanna13 - describing what happens in political life is not the same as approving of it. I don't approve of Brexit and I don't like Rwanda as a plan. But that doesn't mean I can't see some absolute piffle legally. It is not wrong to say that what the UK wants is in its self interest as expressed by its government. It is simple reality.

If I was mad, I would insist that Rishi Sunak's government accords to my left wing views on what should happen. Explaining the legal limits of something, or why the UK government can make a particular stance is just a neutral thing. You can't get steamed up about the fact that another country doesn't agree with the UK or the EU or whatever. This isn't about like or dislike.

I think the method by which the UK left the EU was very destructive. But the mistake is to assume it did not, for the UK at least, change any perception as to how it considers Ireland. I think from the exchange this week it is very clear it did and continues to do so.

That's my view. It doesn't mean I was pro leaving, or I am saying that I agree with Rees Mogg or a bunch of goady articles about gaming the Irish border. It's just that the actual message from the UK has been extremely dismissive publicly of Simon Harris, and it's worth thinking why that is. Partly it is immediate politics, but the other part is something which shows a change in how the UK regards Ireland. Sunak was incredibly brusque. That is certainly different from the UK.

Lets hope this will stop the boat people as its unfair on those that have to wait years sometimes to get a visia and cost thousand to get a Brit citizenship
The "boat people" don't get visas or citizenship. They are illegal immigrants that either claim asylum when they get to Britain or disappear under the radar. A concerted international effort needs to happy to tackle the massive people trafficking trade but judging by international progress on the illegal drugs trade I won't hold my breath.

@bombastix
It's just that the actual message from the UK has been extremely dismissive publicly of Simon Harris, and it's worth thinking why that is. Partly it is immediate politics, but the other part is something which shows a change in how the UK regards Ireland. Sunak was incredibly brusque. That is certainly different from the UK.

The tories and Ireland never had a good relationship the tories always saw Ireland as an irritant. If labour gets in I would expect things to change again

Unfortunately it's nothing new, the UK govt has always had this attitude to Ireland.

In the EU commission Ireland and England were very close and usually voted together on most things. I guess the UK always viewed Ireland as the much weaker, smaller one. Since Brexit with Ireland having the backing of the EU Ireland are no longer the weaker partner and the UK government don't like it. They are learning what its like to be a small fish in a big sea and they don't like it.

I think it’s to be expected

No country would say yes we had an agreement to take migrants to that scale

Even if they were as close as anything

To give an example EU countries are saying no to each other. It’s just an outcome of increasing migration

I absolutely agree with you. There has been a fundamental change in how the UK view Ireland. Hopefully things will improve with a new government.

You get it. My point is, for the first time I think I doubt it a little. Of course Ireland should keep its cool on this. But unless there is a UK EU compromise, I am a bit skeptical whether it would improve. While it's fair to say the relationship between the UK and Ireland has never been smooth, and actually frankly a lot worse and in much worse circumstances with an actual live conflict going on, it was not so reactive. This is very reactive on immigration and I think that is quite a big difference. If you had said to me 10 years ago that the UK would over write the ECHR in its domestic legislation I would have said no. But it did. It left the EU. I really do think things are in a different order of thinking over here. To say it's unneighbourly is really putting it mildly. It is actually a really different country. We are changing in the UK.

The difference being they dont have t pay to get visia, checks, jump the queue etc - there is nothing fair in that

We came to England in the early 60's I was a baby - I know of people that played the systems not necessarily via boat but other means - it is unfair on those that do the legal route

If these boat people are fleeing a nasty country - why not stay in the EU as they are safe? Why risk the sea crossing?? Why leave their children, wife etc behind in most cases??

The UK government (especially the Tories) were never a friend to Ireland and have thrown Ireland under the bus on numerous occasions.
The difference now is they can't do this so easily anymore because as part of the EU Ireland have more power and the UK govt REALLY do not like this.

Ireland don’t have leverage here though

And despite other stuff I still think people are missing that multiple countries are saying no, and all would say no to these returns

I think you are seeing things from a very UK centric perspective.
Simon Harris is new to the job, there is likely to be an election later this year. His first priority is to the Irish electorate. He wants to take a stance on this. How it is viewed in Britian is not his first priority.
This is making headlines in Irish media but I have not seen it among the top stories in the UK.

Well I am from the UK! Simon Harris has his own way to make. It's just that being given a big diplomatic slap by Rishi Sunak (who is frankly grateful for the attention) is not great. I note all the more punchy articles on this have disappeared in the Irish press and no wonder. The pay off is rubbish presumably and has brought attention to something that nobody actually wanted except perhaps Rishi Sunak. In raising it so loudly, but getting a very rude return, it's certainly different.

I don't think UK will accept returns either. But Irelands strength within the EU vs UK out of the EU is an issue much greater than this.

The difference being they don't have to pay to get visa, checks, jump the queue etc - there is nothing fair in that
I think you're missing the point they don't get visas and what queue are they jumping? They've likely paid through the nose to illegal traffickers to get a seat on the boat.

I don’t think it’s very relevant here as the EU cannot help out in any way wrt what the UK say

Even being within the EU doesn’t mean countries say yes, eg France saying no to Italy

Whether it impacts other stuff maybe but just on this thread I don’t think so

The pay off is that Simon Harris said some strong words - which is what the electorate want and really all he could do in this case.

Everyone is playing a game here. He’s neatly brought it to the attention that from now on the situation with refugees can be blamed on the UK (apparently). So when people on either side of the debate in Ireland complain about refugees either being here or being in tents, the government can shake their heads and point the finger elsewhere without demonising the refugees themselves.

I would agree with there @mollyfolk because the alternative are a bit grim. Ireland is not going to do some daft goady shit like turning up at the border with buses. Which is at least sane

Yes that’s a fair take imo

No it won’t and there won’t be a hard border. And ultimately as I said, as long as there is poverty and war there will be refugees everywhere including in Ireland whether they come through NI or not.

All of Europe would be better off working together rather than trying to bat them off on each other.

I mean look at this grimness. This father has spent 14 years in EU countries and he has got a no. He tries for the UK and his daughter dies in the journey. I doubt he even knows that there is no way to claim asylum legally in the UK given the method of entry. Where will he go next?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/may/01/father-of-girl-died-channel-family-feared-deported-iraq