"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

The legislation is to correct an issue wrt safe and the U.K.

The conditions of return are going to need more substance than that, no country would willingly put themselves in line for mass deportation unless a proper alternative processing agreement

So yes it depends on the actual wording

The police get attacked and flares thrown, there is footage. No need to get too hands on when a knife to the boat is a quick solution.

Okay, for the sake of everybody on here, generally, arrangements mean that two parties indicate they shall share or cooperate on a particular requirement. How particular depends on how it's drafted. But the vague it is, the more difficult the situation to say one party is not doing something they should.

Now how one party or the other does this is up to them. You can't demand it, you can't insist on how's it's done, and it is not a legal obligation.

And so whoever briefed Simon Harris on this needs to be told to brush up on international law, and remember that an arrangement to cooperate on matters is very much in the eye of one party and the finger wagging was probably the stupidest thing that could have been done here.

And I note all the coverage on that has disappeared. So I think it's fair to say that someone who thought this was a good story has got it quite wrong.

If an Eu country can return to the U.K. the U.K. should be able to return to an Eu country. This will be interesting to watch play out as France definitely will not want each boat load returned to them.

It would be stupid of the U.K. to agree a deal or a law or whatever that didn’t do that though, will the Eu agree to sure return or will the Eu try and make an example of the U.K. for leaving by trying to pressure or insist that Ireland can return but we cannot or will they throw Ireland under the bus to protect its land linked countries. Who knows.

Unfortunately I do not think you have actually read my posts. Please do not put words in my mouth which I have not said.

I have been very careful to state that it is UK GOVERNMENT policy which has negatively affected Ireland, now, during Brexit and for generations. I have been very careful not to tarnish all British with the same brush. I have said many times that I know all British do not support their government, Brexit etc. I have been very careful to do this as I am well aware that it is the case.

This is not a deflection on Irelands immigration policy. Some people on this thread seem to think that this is the first time Ireland have had to deal with immigration. This is so far from the truth and Ireland have been dealing with immigration for years. Irish society is as multicultural as England or Wales.
The issue here is that through the unethical Rwanda policy the UK are not willing to take their fair share of immigrants and are leaving Ireland to clean up their mess. Rather than trying to cooperate with Ireland there have been cancelled meetings and suggestions that all the UK immigrants should be sent to camps on the NI border!

Numerous British people in certain UK media and in this thread are getting very snippy that Ireland would dare stand up for itself ( on this occasion and during Brexit). There is a sense that Ireland should just sit back and accept whatever the UK throws at it. I will say again that I know this is not the feeling of all British people.

Given that Italy, Germany, Austria and Denmark are all looking at processing migrants in a third country, and preparing laws and processes to enable it, I think this story has a way to run yet.

Yes. When I say it was not a good story, I mean it was not the optic that it might have been, because what it has actually done is expose how very much of the CTA is about goodwill, and the foolishness of pretending otherwise

I would like to hope that the average Irish and UK citizen would have a good relationship. Unfortunately in recent years the UK goverment have done everything they can to ensure that the two govermebts do not.

As much as the UK government decides to isolate themselves they will find that they actually do need to talk to their neighbours. Coming to talks with such a negative mindset will not do them any favours.

And you will find that Ireland is part of the EU so by talking to the EU they are talking to Ireland!!

I don’t think it’s as much about a relationship as the legal underpinning of what’s going on

And as much as Ireland don’t want extra migrants there is not much that can be done in terms of returns, the agreement doesn’t mean there is even casually

To put it another way two countries could have the best relationship ever in a kind of I’ll help you here if you do there in a non binding way, but it doesn’t mean you’d see an agreement for a large number of returns

Because countries are not in the habit of agreeing to that

It’s a bit like agreeing with your neighbour you’ll offer a pot of sugar when needed but if they ask to move in or whatever scaled up version it’s a no because it’s too far off the mutual understanding

@Evanna13 but you are taking to the Commission who have the wider interest. And that is the UK position.

It's not about the average relationship between citizens. Or even governments because the UK wants to discuss with the EU. That is my point. And it will, and yea, the EU may or may not represent an Irish view but it will balance that against all the priorities it has, and it won't care about the CTA. It would point out that Ireland can either maintain its arrangements if it can with the UK, but it's incentive to say it needs to exist is nil.

And so whoever briefed Simon Harris on this needs to be told to brush up on international law, and remember that an arrangement to cooperate on matters is very much in the eye of one party and the finger wagging was probably the stupidest thing that could have been done here.

really what is he supposed to do though. Of course he’s going to ask the UK to uphold their arrangement and criticise the decision not to. Why wouldn’t he? What is the best move for him here? He’s not concerned about how he looks to the wider British public - he’s concerned about his own electorate.

The only person who is acting absolutely embarrassingly here is Reece-Moggs. He couldn’t give a shite about the people of Northern Ireland. He’s disgusting.

The agreement probably doesn’t cover anything like this

Rees Mogg is an idiot. But Harris should have avoided making references to the CTA as if it did something it didn't. Maybe he thought it would be good politics. Instead he has egg on his face because he's got a rude counterpart in No 10 who gave him a direct answer (and didn't do this via a diplomatic channel). All that is left now is for the Irish Government to try and address something they can't really do much about with some cooperation which they've just blown. That's silly and leads to 100 Gardai on a Swiss cheese border.

Quite. And Ireland is also completely at liberty to adopt its own policy. Ultimately the country with no onward processing policy will end up with most of the migrants. Possibly.

I'm embarrassed for you!! You might want to fact check what post!

Unfortunately you are not making a lot of sense.
The UK and Irish governments do still meet. The UK govt also meets with the EU of Ireland is a part.
Ireland are willing to take their fair share of immigrants and understand their obligation to do so. The UK govt are not and are letting Ireland take the slack.
You seem very happy to support and justify a government with extremely unethical policies. Personally I would not be happy to do so.

What the hell??
There is nothing to forgive Ireland for over Brexit!!!
FFS, the stupidity/foolishness or ignorance of some!!!

A ferry from Scotland to NI may not require ID.

It does.

You take a passport, driving licence or similar. Scrutiny is a click up from what it used to be because of ‘Protocol’ issues. You don’t necessarily show ID as you are, at least if a car passenger, pre-booked by name, very briefly questioned and counted.

The Stranraer route is a favourite for coaches to Glasgow for shopping or the football.

As said there may well be smuggling by truck. I go to see relatives in NI and border counties of ROI 2 or 3 times a year via Dublin or Belfast (via Wales or Birkenhead more than Stranraer) and work related fly to Dublin a couple of times a year. Never had the car boot checked so could have smuggled all sorts. Generally see searches going on - mostly vans.

I know, it's absoutley ridiculous!

Is that the point the poster is trying to make, I don’t see them as directly supporting ‘unethical policies’, they are factually describing the dynamics of the bigger picture.

I think there is a bit of self-denial going on if you think that Ireland does not have a problem with accepting immigrants, just like other countries unfortunately it does; the riots in Dublin last November over immigration and alarmingly protests last year at a Dublin hospital against foreign nationals, this is the capital city FGS!

@Evanna13 - it's just the method of the UK getting what it wants? I don't think that means a support of a policy or anti Irish feeling or some wider rejection beyond what has already occurred, ie Brexit which is politics and now we have some new legalities. Not more than that.

Naturally the UK wants to talk to the decision maker. Who is that? Well it's the EU Commission.

Yes, the UK must get what it wants by whatever means possible!!!
This is the problem and one you seem very happy to support and justify!

I think there is a bit of self-denial going on if you think that Ireland does not have a problem with accepting immigrants
Don't think poster was talking about its citizens as everywhere there is a very vocal minority who oppose asylum seekers coming to Ireland. The state however does accept and process their quota of asylum seekers.

I think the UK have burned a lot of their bridges with the EU commission and are just not very important to them anymore.

I think if the UK had dealt with things in a better manner this would not be the case for them.