"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

Saw someone else post this and have to agree, it is very true:

It’s funny how Ireland and the EU bleated on during the Brexit negotiations about how there cannot under any circumstances be a physical border between the North and the Republic, yet a physical border has been proposed on two occasions since Brexit; once by the EU (over Covid vaccines) and now by Ireland over asylum seekers.

This underlines the fact that the threat to peace in Northern Ireland never came from the UK, but from Ireland itself and the EU. It was always said our negotiating stance during the Brexit negotiations should have been “we’re not going to create a hard border, what you do on your side, is not our problem to solve”. Yet for some bizarre reason, Theresa May saw fit to get us entangled in the legal mess that is the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Ireland is now considering lining the border with police, checking anyone entering to see if there are any asylum seekers. But what about the GFA? What about the Northern Ireland Protocol? So we’re being asked to believe a border is bad if it’s proposed by the UK, even though the UK never proposed one, and good if it’s proposed by Ireland, which now has.

What’s even more amusing is that the Irish courts have stated that the UK is not a safe country to deport asylum seekers to because the UK might deport them to Rwanda. Plus, the UK has told the Irish that they won’t accept asylum seekers back from Ireland until the UK can send them back to France.

Moral of this story? Careful what you wish for. If your entire raison d’etre in life is to tie other people in knots, be ready for what happens when your own logic gets turned around and applied to you.

As Angela Rayner and the Irish government are now discovering very quickly.

Definitely the lesson is be careful what you wish for; the arrangements have to last a long time, asking for something when you have little to give by return is a fool's errand and the CTA is an understanding. I don't think much of Rishi Sunak but whoever briefed Harris did a bad job. He's got very little traction, and allowed Sunak to make himself look better in the eyes of the voters he wants to covet. Given how unpopular Sunak is that is pretty impressive. Harris will now be mithered by his political opponents for evidence of this arrangement which he will never be able to produce for diplomatic reasons.

Very good person on R4 talking about human trafficking networks and how organised, financially backed and mafia like they are

They are impossible to get to and massive

Says don’t use ‘people smugglers’ think about huge chains of organised people trafficking

People at the bottom won’t even know the people at the top

It’s funny how Ireland and the EU bleated on during the Brexit negotiations about how there cannot under any circumstances be a physical border between the North and the Republic, yet a physical border has been proposed on two occasions since Brexit; once by the EU (over Covid vaccines) and now by Ireland over asylum seekers.
No it wasn't, a physical border was never proposed! Ireland wanted to work with Northern Ireland Assembly to come up with common rules but that was turned down. There were checkpoints all over Ireland checking where people were travelling to during covid same as for people travelling from the North. Again they are not proposing a physical border now fgs. Have you ever "seen" the border between Ireland and the North? you would have difficulty because there isn't one.

Ireland is now considering lining the border with police, checking anyone entering to see if there are any asylum seekers. - that is not a hard border! But what about the GFA? What about the Northern Ireland Protocol? So we’re being asked to believe a border is bad if it’s proposed by the UK, even though the UK never proposed one, and good if it’s proposed by Ireland, which now has. - and again no border has been proposed or will ever be proposed

I heard that interview on Today programme too. First time I have had openly discussed the chain throughout Europe , really the U.K. is the end of the chain , now it’s possibly Ireland.
but the Irish saying they don’t want to be responsible for U.K. migration mess well that is exactly how we feel about Europe and the Schengen zone.
the family of the little girl that died were Iraqi and had failed claims in 4 different countries, Sweden, Belgium, Finland and one other so were trying to get to U.K. to try there.

i think Ireland are in denial about this new reality and blaming England is foolish.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border, help pay the costs of policing that and help with EU returns agreements.
The Irish need to offer something like we have to offer the French ( money and expertise)

I think Ireland are in denial about this new reality and blaming England is foolish.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border, help pay the costs of policing that and help with EU returns agreements.
The Irish need to offer something like we have to offer the French ( money and expertise)
The UK are working with France and have an agreement with them on policing the channel.
UK and France finalised a joint-multimillion-euro agreement to stop people from crossing the channel. The new UK asylum bill passed to the second reading with the majority of conservative MPs voting in favor despite critique from all sides.
if I was Cleverly I’d be saying help us with the French border Why? We have no jurisdiction there

Ireland are trying to do the same between UK and Ireland but UK are not cooperating and are pretty pleased by all accounts that asylum seekers are using the route through Northern Ireland to get to Ireland. So everything they criticised France for they are doing to Ireland. I don't think Ireland have any issue working collaboratively with the UK on this but the UK won't work with them on it.

This is completely untrue and absoutley ridiculous. Ireland never has and never will impose a hard border.
Having Gardai checking asylum seekers is in no way a hard border.
The CTA applies to Irish and UK residents only.
Ireland have always acted in good faith and unfortunately NI and Ireland were lied to on numerous occasions by the UK govt during Brexit. Brexit is not something Ireland wanted or had any say in and it has been hugely detrimental to the Irish economy. Having to deal with a UK govt who lied and who seemed to have no knowledge or interest in keeping the peace in NI or in Good Friday agreement was difficult to say the least.

Ireland should work with U.K. because ultimately the English Channel route from France is where many of the asylum seekers in Ireland will come from.
U.K. is the land route to Ireland.

but up to Ireland ultimately I guess

Except it is not completely true. The EU proposed to temporarily trigger a clause to stop vaccines being exported from Ireland into Northern Ireland. This was shot down immediately by Ireland, the UK and all the northern Irish parties.

And Ireland is not proposing a border now at all, in any sense.

Nobody wants a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, nobody has proposed one.

The guy was good as finally weight was given to the financial backing and strength of trafficking networks, and how foolish it is to think that if you pluck off the guy at the bottom on the beach with a stick there isn’t an endless supply of people ready to step in and work for those who are untouchable.

imo this huge trade is down to the 1951 convention, and overturning that is the only way if people want to stop network trafficking. I’m not sure if people will ask for that, not yet, but maybe as the issue grows, as it will due to climate pressure

To add - Aus is pretty close to stopping it but it takes a lot

Yes but... consider how sour much of the UK Government is about NIP. Ireland would have to make contrary arguments to the UK and ask for help. Now that's all very well and good, but if you had leveraged the EU into negotiations a few years ago and made great play with it (Leo V) I reckon Ireland will get a dusty answer for a while. And probably that applies to for Labour and Conservative.

Oh I agree Westminster is not pre disposed to Ireland at all and not really in a place to extend a helpful hand.
but if I was Ireland I would see the position I was in and try to look beyond it and make amends if I could. But I don’t think Ireland or U.K. will ever agree

Ireland are trying to work with the UK fgs but the UK surprise are once again are breaking their agreements and promises they have proved time and again not to be trusted

How’s does Ireland expect this to work?

Someone crosses a soft border anywhere and what happens?

People are stopped? Asked for papers, transported, then kept where

There have been comments here that Ireland have to get used to immigrants. Ireland are well used to immigrants and have had asylum seekers coming for years. The Irish population is just as diverse as England or Wales. This is not something new to Ireland.

The issue here is that Britains Rwanda plan is unethical in inhumane. It means Britain are not willing to take their fair share of immigrants. It is making Ireland take all the slack for this. I have seen so many suggestions here that all the asylum seekers should be sent to camps on the NI border.

but @Dulra that how’s the U.K. see Irish politics too. Many will find it hard to forgive Ireland over the brexit negotiations.
if you want to see how many see Ireland in England read the spectator comments under articles about Ireland/ brexit etc
There’s no appetite to help the Irish out.
i don’t agree at all with them but just pointing this out.
i am sure similar comments in Irish media would say same about the U.K.
the vaccine debacle played out badly here in U.K. as an example

Could you explain in more detail what you think Ireland should do and who exactly they should make amends with and why?

This is all a power play I agree but... Ireland does not have much leverage. Referencing the CTA was a mistake.

Why? Because the "operational arrangements" that Harris makes reference to are not legal obligations. That was a very pointed remark by the UK. It may just be that they heard it somewhere before, from their neighbours a few years ago during the negotiations.

Harris to eat Varkadar's share of humble pie.

What did Ireland do in Bexot negotiations? Insist that the good Friday agreement was stuck to? That was for NI too, you know part of the UK.

Many will find it hard to forgive Ireland over the brexit negotiations.
Forgive them for what? Brexit well and truly threw Ireland under the bus, undermined the GFA which has brought peace to this Island for decades. the UK were annoyed that we wouldn't just roll over and let the UKs Brexit decision s**t all over it!

if you want to see how many see Ireland in England read the spectator
No thanks the Tories have never been a friend of Ireland.

There’s no appetite to help the Irish out.
This isn't about helping the Irish out, this is about sticking to your side of an agreement but the tories are not very good at that are they?

@sashagabadon - you are on the money. Basically I do not think that the UK will forget Ireland bringing in the EU to do NIP for a very long time! Then making reference to the CTA as a common bond which is the basis of return just compounds it. No help for the foreseeable

Can you please give some examples to show how Ireland were untrustworthy and acted in bad faith during the Brexit negotiations? I would love to know.

The aim of Ireland during Brexit negotiations was to keep peace on the island and keep to the Good Friday Agreement. This made it difficult for the UK govt as they were attempted to break international law on numerous occasions.

Ireland did not ask for Brexit, did not want Brexit but were forced to deal with it and all its dire consequences for Ireland.

I think a lot of people in the UK were bitter because they thought the UK should be able to do exactly what they like to little old Ireland without consequence but unfortunately this time Ireland had the backing of the EU.

This is how many in U.K. see Ireland during Brexit. That they behaved badly under instruction from the EU. Read articles in more right wing papers such as Spectator and you will see this.
i’m not saying it but I see others saying it. It will give you the U.K. perspective if you want to know it( not everyone of course and not me)
.
many want to get rid of the CTA and so Ireland mentioning it and putting a spotlight on it was a mistake imo.

Where are returns covered in the CTA?

I’ve had a quick scan but mostly it’s to do with citizens

‘Under the CTA, British and Irish citizens can move freely and reside in either jurisdiction and enjoy associated rights and privileges, including the right to work, study and vote in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services.’

It’s about freedom to move and get things, not forced return

Does it mention asylum returns?

This is how many in U.K. see Ireland during Brexit. That they behaved badly under instruction from the EU.
Well the rest of us were appalled at how the UK behaved so lets leave it there we will never agree on this.