Was I out of order

[YouwouldthinkIhavemoresense]

Yesterday I was at a football match and at a stadium. It was heaving and I have never been to a stadium, or indeed a football match, before.
Had my children with me. One of each sex. Just me to add. No other adults.

Anyway, took my youngest to the female toilet with me just before half time. Two men ( or at least I thought they were) - entered as well. Both very masculine looking and dressed very sporty with very short/ shaved haircuts.

So me being me, said quite nonchalantly to one of them “ this is the ladies “… just that.

One of them responded with “ we ARE female “
I apologised for my mistake and thought that was it.

Well, with that, there was then a tirade of passive aggressive behaviour/ comments from both of them: it was all very unpleasant. They even spoke to each other loudly about me whilst in the cubicles.

I then bumped into them whilst washing my hands and they continued to goad me- staring at me, laughing, telling each other to “ calm down” and “ that I wasn’t worth it” , commenting on my face/ appearance.
It was horrid. And all this time I had my child with me.

AIBU in feeling uncomfortable or was my initial reaction really that provoking?

Preparing to be flamed 😬

Me neither. Except on this occasion.

@Kirstyshine you seem very dismissive of others feelings. You are very shouting that OP is left feeling hurt but she offended not 1 but 2 people. OP ought to get her priorities straight and that starts with her eye sight. It makes me laugh on here that people take things for gospel. If you were not present to the situation this is all allegedly to the OP.... tbh I don't know how she managed to mistake 2 woman not even just 1 for a man.

Not only that she doesn't really have a right to demand someone out of the loo. Perhaps she will keep her nose out in future?

Well they were probably offended, you won't be the first person to point out they look like men and maybe it was the straw that broke the camels back. Would you be offended if someone said it to you?

I mean ignoring hair and clothing did they look like men? I walk with hands in pockets, have hair cut at the barber, wear a lot of clothes from the men's section, but I look nothing like a man.

Ah ok I can see how you might have thought they'd got muddled then

You were a twat and offended then

any one can make a mistake but the fact you say when you had a proper look you could tell they were women

in other words you opened your mouth insulted and offended them without having a proper look

Wind your neck in. Please .
I did not ‘ demand ‘ anyone out of loo: I genuinely thought they were men. I only said “ this is the ladies “… I never told them to fuck off or became aggressive. Once they said they were female I apologised immediately.

They then became very passive aggressive and nasty to me and I don’t think that’s right .

Going off on a slight tangent..
Everyone has an Adam's apple (cartilage around the larynx)
It tends to be more prominent in men, but it can be more noticable in slim or underweight women.
People thinking it's only men leads to conspiracy type things such as "Michelle Obama is secretly a man"

I've been mistaken for a man more than once, not helped by having short hair and dressing in jeans and big fleeces etc. Happens in winter rather than summer as my boobs are more obvious then.

I don't take it as an insult when it happens and these women should have done the same. You made a mistake and apologised. I'd say they have no manners.

I’ve seen plenty!

Ok. So do lots of my mates.
These women could have absolutely passed for men. One hundred percent.

Not surprisingly, given how men seem to be desperate to get into women’s spaces these days, we’re all on the lookout for these situations, in a way we didn’t used to be.

OP saw 2 people in the women’s toilets who looked like men. They must know they look like men, if they style their hair a certain way, dress a certain way, carry themselves a certain way. So when someone essentially accuses them of being men in a women’s toilet, they shouldn’t really be surprised. And if that person apologises , they certainly shouldn’t be arsey about it. If you don’t want to be mistaken for a man, don’t take steps to look like one!

It reminds me a bit of being told not to stare at punks in London as a teenager. I’m sorry but if you have green hair, multiple facial piercings, a Mohican, dressed in chains etc, people are going to look at you!

I don't think you will be so quick to say anything in future. I've been to the odd football match and it wasn't uncommon to see women with hair done in a variety of ways, including near crew cuts or short back and sides which are also common to men.

Yes, I think you were unreasonable and I can see why they were offended.

They shouldn't have continued it after you acknowledged your error and apologised though.

Thank you 💛

It reminds me a bit of being told not to stare at punks in London as a teenager. I’m sorry but if you have green hair, multiple facial piercings, a Mohican, dressed in chains etc, people are going to look at you!

Hardly the same as just buying common everyday clothes (jeans and hoodie or sports clothing) from a high street shop, and getting your hair cut at the local barber is it?

OP you did nothing wrong, in fact well done for looking at protecting boundaries. If they had half an ounce of common sense they would have just said don't worry we are women and laughed it off.

Ignore people who are telling you off. You are allowed to protect your boundaries, you are allowed to make mistakes.

You felt vulnerable but still challenged them?

But you didn’t ask a question? You just assumed, according to your first post?

Do I? I don’t mean to. I think taking offence at something that is going to keep happening is a road to disappointment & more hurt feelings. I’d love to look more like Beyoncé and less like Eddie Izzard but it is how it is. I’ve plenty of empathy for the women and girls who’ve given me a double take to check my sex in ladies’ loos. They don’t want men in there, that’s allowed.

Think you got off lightly

I would have told you to go fuck yourself.

OP apologised as soon as she realised her mistake but they didn't seem able to accept that but continued to be verbally aggressive especially in front of her child!

Is sorry not enough anymore?

Except you said on a second look they didn't look like men. So how could they 100% pass for men 🥴
You asked if you were being out of order and clearly the answer is yes obviously you should look and think twice before you decide to make a comment on people's appearance.

A woman shaves her head and dresses like a man, yet becomes offended when challenged in the ladies toilets! They knew and they were making a point, by goading you. They're assuming you're anti trans. The problem is them, not you. I'm sorry this happened to you.

No, they shouldn’t have carried on being shitty after you apologised.

You clearly annoyed them- it is annoying to be regularly questioned about your sex or have comments made about it, so to you it’s one question you asked but it could be the 3rd time it’s happened to them that week so their reaction was disproportionate.

Why has being trans got anything to do with it?!

They were women in a women’s space and pissed off with being questioned.