Baby Reindeer creator is provoking his stalker

[jengachampion]

SPOILERS AHEAD
I’ll preface this by saying I had a male stalker for 7 years. I moved, changed jobs, and deleted all social media in that time. I’m also a survivor of SA, as well as assault after being spiked, similar to RG in the show.

It completely baffles me that he would completely replicate his stalker down to physical likeness, occupation, accent, exact correspondences and references like hanging curtains.

He is clearly not too worried about people finding the real person, as well as her potentially contacting him again.

If it were me telling my story, I would change all identifying details of both of us, because I would NEVER want to go through it again. RG telling his story this way is hugely weird to me and really speaks to the theme of mutual obsession he hints at in the show.

The point is that the fact that he isn’t fictionalising it is leaving the door open for her to harass him further. Which isn’t what the usual stalking victim would do because being stalked is a terrifying nightmare that you would do anything to stop and avoid re-opening.

@WellThatEndedBadly I suspect you’re right, I do think the way he portrayed himself in a honest light was what made it so ‘fascinating’, isn’t the correct term but I can’t think of anything else. It was very troubling, agreed, and well articulated.

I didn't think he painted himself as an innocent victim in the series though. He's admitted poking and encouraging her and that he did like the attention at times.

Why should he not tell his story to protect her identity? Or his rapists? I think it's a means of taking back power. That man is now waiting for people to work out was him, or for someone else to come forward and say he did it to them too. It's a big "you thought the shame would keep me quiet and protect you, I've told the world, what's keeping you safe now?"

What I was saying is that the being unlikeable, and multiple visits to police even when it seems odd not to is a fair representation of what often happens regardless of gender I think

Often (as you've later sadly explained you've had experience with) people don't access the police, report everything or engage with the process. It's often complicated and messy

I think it would be highly unrealistic (regardless of gender) to show someone who behaved impeccably, going to the police who immediately take action.

I felt it rang much more true to show that often victims take several attempts, or are worried they will be blamed. I don't think it's fair to call it lame.

@Whatsitcalled38 You’ve said what I was trying to, badly. Stockholm syndrome springs to mind, on this however, not quite the same of course, but reminded me of it!

But she can't continue it. Stalking happens in the shadows, they use your fear and shame to hold that power. How could she possibly start that again. With all those spotlights. It's essentially more so made it so she can never do it again. He never has to wait for the day she picks it up again out of no where. Its essentially baiting and calling her bluff "come on. Everyone's watching, whatcha gonna do."

These people don't want the world to know what they're doing.

It’s not about him having the right to do it, it’s about his motivations and what that says about his experience.

Yes, he’s free to openly characterise himself and his stalker the way he has. But he clearly doesn’t care about the ramifications of that and it’s very strange because most stalking victims, myself included, would do anything possible to avoid re-inviting that hell into our lives. Hence why I’m saying that if I were to publicise my story I would guarantee anonymity for my own sake. Not tacitly reveal who the stalker is, play it all out for him to see, and ask people nicely not to look him up because he’s vulnerable.

I think some posters are missing or ignoring the point of the thread.

What is very clear is that RG feels safe enough to "poke the bear" because he doesn't feel in physical danger from his stalker, and he has good reason to feel that way. Female stalkers, especially where their victim is male, are far less likely to attack or kill their victim than male stalkers where the victim is female.

A woman in the same situation where her male stalker is alive and kicking, out in the world at large, would not do such a thing for fear of it, even if the stalking had "come to an end" instigating further acts of stalking or even violence against her-including murder.

I'm not saying this as a point of "Oh, he's a male victim of a woman, so his story doesn't matter and should never be told"-no, as a point of there's an element of safety around RG that a woman would not have in the same or similar circumstances that cannot be ignored.

I like the fact that it showed that people don't have to be "perfect victims" to be a victim. The reality is, many victims of stalking and other such crimes are not "perfect" as in they didn't behave in the so-called "right" way, etc-and it's good to highlight that and for people to understand that doesn't lessen the impact of the crimes committed against them. Or make them less of a victim.

It's just...odd that he's made her so identifiable, claimed he's removed all identifiable features-when people have easily sussed her identity out. Now he's telling everyone to not seek out the real people involved. Too late for that. That ship has sailed. The reality is, the internet is full of people who can find pretty much anyone with an online presence with a few clues-however thinly veiled-and it was bound to happen.

Either way, she was always going to find out the show was about her, wasn't she? It's a show based on a true story about his life that he is playing the main character of and he's being stalked by this woman, it would have been pretty hard to miss the connection, right?

@jengachampion
The point is that the fact that he isn’t fictionalising it is leaving the door open for her to harass him further. Which isn’t what the usual stalking victim would do because being stalked is a terrifying nightmare that you would do anything to stop and avoid re-opening

Maybe he feels differently because he is make or maybe he feels by making it public she is less likely to stalk him. Maybe it makes it less terrifying for him that people know and that he can talk about it, Maybe he was desperate for cash and couldn't think of anything else to write about? Who knows?

I don't think it's helpful to talk about typical behaviour for victims of rape and for people who have been stalked.

I wonder if it's a poor translation from the show?

The show it's based off was a one man show, where it was just him on stage and was obviously much shorter to a smaller audience. If it's just him then it was probably much easier to depict what was happening without the circus that's happened now

I wonder if the issue has come with padding it out to a series, adding details, having cast people in those roles and it having it broadcast on mass

To be honest I would lay the blame partially with people like netflix, who would know exactly how it would play out, have massively legal teams and have watched this play out.

It's not to say that Richard gadd couldn't have anticipated it, but having done the one man show for a long time (the play was about 5 years ago and i think there was some kind of book?) to a slightly apathetic audience and not recieved any thing like this, I think it is difficult to predict just how much traction this stuff gains but the companies involved would have know exactly

@clairelouwho you have a valid point about the physical safety aspect. I do think he’s served justice in a way that is quite smart too.

I am all for challenging perfect victims and paradoxical behaviour but there is nothing wrong with questioning the motivations here, the culpability, the way gender impacts this, his reasoning for provoking a reaction when most stalking murders occur with a restraining order in place.

Plus the disingenuousness of insisting he changed her profile when he didn’t change anything at all, and asking people not to look her up when he knew they would. He is not being honest here and is clearly not afraid of further connection with this woman and that is strange and worthy of discussion.

I've often thought about writing a book or drama about my life with my then husband. I want his family and friends to know what he put me (and others) through, the real him. I hadn't got past the "That sounds like Jetties' story" reaction from his family - this thread is helping me decide, once and for all, that I'm not set out to be a writer. Also because there's nothing more dangerous than a narcissist with nothing left to lose. His reputation is everything to him.

I haven't watched BR but as soon as I heard the requests not to try and work out who is was I suspected it was all deliberate, he wanted her outed.

Would this programme have been made, and be getting so much attention, if it was a female victim and male stalker?

> I don't think it's helpful to talk about typical behaviour for victims of rape and for people who have been stalked.

I could not agree more strongly with this comment @WellThatEndedBadly

I thought the show was a brilliant way of depicting a complex situation through art. My DH and I have had several stalkers, due to the nature of the work we have done. They are men and women of different ages. I suspect it is not unusual in visible roles.

It's also easy to say 'oh well these people are mentally unwell' but I think that over-simplifies things: sometimes they just want to be seen, or heard, when they have been powerless. (I think that's the point he makes at the end: this could be any of us.) But nontheless, it's really scary, especially when our DC have been targeted. And yet there is still this feeling that maybe I could have helped them - maybe I still can.

I think it's great that he's told his story. I've often thought about writing about my own experience (I've given talks - one had to be cancelled because a stalker showed up). It's a compelling narrative but also the sinister and paranoid undertones are really intense.

Is the woman identified really her or could she be claiming it is for attention? Not sure why anyone would do that or why the real Martha would confirm it is her for that matter!

I agree that the lady in question would know it is her just for the fact Richard Gadd is the lead.

Because he's left the other victims of the stalker exposed and open to harassment.

There are specific messages and references in BR that a certain woman also tweeted at RG (writer and lead) in the timeframe specified. Her career, physical likeness, writing style and content, and nationality are all the same as Martha.

She's also saying it didn't happen like that and I'm inclined to give that some credibility. No one who thought they were in danger or scared would think sod it, Netflix £££ is worth ruining my life all over again for

I disagree. It’s not for any of us to say what ‘the usual stalking victim’ would do! That’s as bad as saying she wouldn’t have stayed if it was that bad. People are allowed to be who they are in the face of their own trauma, I don’t think he tried in any way to cover himself in glory throughout the series.

It's definitely her.

I do wonder this. I saw something describing at as something straight out of black mirror where the stalker becomes the stalked. I'm not quite sure what the people making it thought they would achieve from it. I understand it was a show/play before but it has obviously reached a much wider audience now.

How do you know though? You don’t know what anyone would do apart from you. You’re literally making things up by saying what you’re saying because it has no basis in fact or reality at all.

I found the series disturbing, there appeared to be a theme of sado masochism running through it which could have been from unresolved trauma; and I think that Netflix have been irresponsible by showing it.

There are series and documentaries made all of the time about 'true life crimes'. I don't think this is any different. The lady in question plead guilty, she did stalk, harass and glass him. She did harass his family. I support any victim be they male or female in speaking out against their abuser in whatever way they want to. It is his story to tell.

I haven't personally looked her up, I don't care who she is but she did the crimes and she shouldn't get to silence her victim because he is making her look bad. What she did was bad.

Having seen her Fb now it seems 100% to be her, unless it is a fake account set up to hype the show that is