Male Nursery Staff

[herei]

My child is in Nursery after my return to work. They nursery chain have been hiring make staff recently. My child's nursery has 3 male staff.

My daughter's nappy was changed by a male member of staff. For my own personal reasons I feel upset about this but not sure if I can even say or do anything. I just don't like it.

Is it that weird for a man to want to work with children? I'm thinking of my friend's 19 year old son. He has been helping out with his 3 younger siblings since he was 5. He's now chosen to work in a nursery. It doesn't seem sinister at all. I don't imagine he's the only one with that background.

@Chocaloc

“Up to three quarters of a million men in Britain may have a sexual interest in children, according to researchers.
Analysis carried out by the National Crime Agency (NCA) suggests that as many as one in every 35 adult males is a potential paedophile.
While it is estimated that two thirds of those attracted to children would never act on their urges directly, increasing numbers of men are turning to the internet to seek out sick images of child abuse.”

“Most sexual offenders against children are male, although female offenders may account for 0.4% to 4% of convicted sexual offenders.6,7 On the basis of a range of published reports, McConaghy8estimates a 10 to 1 ratio of male-to-female child molesters.”

This is the root of the issue. This is what needs to change to stop discrimination.

You do realise it was a female nursery nurse and her boyfriend that were prosecuted a few years ago for abusing babies in the nursery. So with that case being all over the news years ago on that basis nurseries should all be shut down and we should go back to being 1950's house wives reliant on the men we think are abusing our children to support us.

All nursery staff undergo the same background checks, sometimes these things do not pick things up because they have not been prosecuted before. But before your child needs a life saving operation where the doctors put her to sleep, would you ask their gender, for their full db's check, if they will at any point be in the room alone with your child? If not then it's the same risk.

They should indeed. Yet here they are, blundering on to MN trying to 'kick the arses' of worried mothers instead, belittling the concerns of women, hiding the bad men behind a transparently thin veil of bad women, telling women as per usual the onus is on them to start trusting men because men's hurt feelings are more important than their own.

Not a word from any of them about anything constructive that could be done to allay fears, tighten safeguarding. Not a single coherent defence to demonstrate women should not be concerned, just a lot of whataboutery to gaslight us into believing the threat from women is equal. Not one good reason why it's in the interests of either babies or the paying customers of nurseries to have male intimate carers imposed on children. Not a shred of evidence to suggest that the men in childcare they're using to make a point are actually fighting for the right to change nappies in the first place.

Ill informed blustering about discrimination that lacks the understanding that it doesnt mean a failure to treat everyone the same. Can you imagine trying to convince an ET panel that not being allowed to change a dirty nappy is a detriment?

Truly, if this thread represents the best men can offer in their own interests, then unfortunately I don't rate their chances of changing anything at all anytime soon.

Doctors and teachers have safeguarding procedures in place for children. They don’t examine them or remove underwear alone without a chaperone

@JustAnotherManicMomday

From my point of view, no nurseries shouldn’t be shut down - and yes male staff should work there - with safeguarding policies in place - to protect children and protect them.

It’s more that I understand the OP’s concerns, and I think parents should have the choice over intimate care.

Yes it is a sad world that we need to feel that way, but in order to combat that stigma - we need to tackle the root cause.

Which are due to the statistics I quoted above.

I currently work with a male nursery worker and would be happy for him to do any nappy.

I’ve also worked with a male teacher who referred to the girls in his class as ‘babes’. I would not be happy there - or another male teacher who described, in a staff room, a lesson he’d taught to KS2 children about masturbation - using disgusting language.

The unfortunate thing here is that most people probably agree it's good to have more male nursery staff, but the people pushing in with demands that centre those men's rights above everyone else, are doing so much more harm than good, yet lack the wits to see it.

Where there's a situation of mistrust, the last thing needed is a lot of shouting and tantrumming about their 'right' to do the thing people are concerned about them doing. Frankly, any man making a song and dance insisting on his right to perform intimate care for a baby is going to arouse suspicion, never mind reduce it.

Men in childcare need to build trust, and this needs to be done from a position of acknowledgement and understanding of why its lacking in the first place. No one in their right mind is going to trust a man who tries to pretend men are statistically no greater risk than women for example, because the immediate thought is, well thats not true, so what's his agenda then?

Nurseries also have safeguarding procedures. Nappy changing areas should be in an open area, not out of sight.

I wouldn’t send my children to a nursery where nappy changing areas were in a private area and nursery workers changed them alone, male or female. I’d consider it poor safeguarding.

@5128gap

Do you think I'm a man?

At my DDs school one of the girls had a male 1:1 who did help her with everything including toileting, because that was his job.
So it can happen that male staff care for female pupils even as they get older. He was a brilliant TA but I expect most people on here will tell me he must be a pervert/sex offender/paedophile.

No, it's not weird. Men can care for children just as well as women.

No idea. This is an anonymous forum, you can be whoever you tell us you are, so declarations either way are pointless. I could be a man myself for all anyone knows. I believe there are some men on this thread and my comments referenced them.

I don’t understand why some people think it’s ok for a small child to automatically have intimate care from the opposite sex when we allow adults to choose. Why are children not afforded the same choice? The child (via their guardian) has a right to privacy and dignity. In this case, if the family would prefer a female then why is this not automatically allowed?

Oh yay, we're back at the point of the thread where everyone who disagrees is a man or not a mum 🙄
It's ridiculous lol
Circular

Do you think no men use MN? Do you think no men join MN threads with titles that indicate issues around men to argue with women who raise concerns, to consistently push a male centred viewpoint, defend themselves and other men and to try to persuade everyone that women are a problem? Do you believe every poster who does these things is a woman? Because I think that some of the people who do this are men. Why should we not acknowledge their presence on the thread?

Just in case it makes a difference, I'm female, I have a daughter. I'm in an industry where I see the god awful in people, an industry, male dominated where by some public opinion I should feel threatened, to some degree I understand why, and yet I don't, I disagree with that view and I still disagree with the op despite not only being aware of statistics but seeing it.
Why because I see the bigger picture, it is not the majority of society at all and therefore fundamentally wrong to hold on to the statistics vilifying an entire group of people out of fear a misusing stats to justify it.

On that premise, male teachers should take boys to the toilet.

Because if nothing else, pragmatism. I work in a sector where the client group has a high level of mistrust in mainstream services. If my brief is to get them to engage with the service, I'm not going to achieve that by barging in on them shouting that not all people like me are like that! I'm a good one! If you don't accept me as such then I'm going to shout at you some more until you do. Because I demand MY RIGHT to do this work for you. Just like with a nursery who puts men's feelings ahead of custimers concerns, people would simply vote with their feet.
Men who want to be trusted need to show sensitivity around the reasons they're not and work to break down barriers. An honest acknowledgement of the issues without all the ridiculous defensive attacks would be an excellent start.

Anyone on this thread who thinks nurseries shouldn't be a womens only space is a man, haven't you rtft? /s

So those men who have gone through the same Child and Social care courses at college need to do more than the women who have done exactly the same, to prove they are worthy?

Whats that then, an extra module entitled "I'm sorry that I could be a peadophile and I acknowledge that"? then they get sent off for conversion therapy?

In that case surely baby boys should have males changing them

@5128gap

Yes of course I'm aware that men use MN, I was just referring to on threads like this the "you're a man" gets wheeled out constantly if you've a different view.

Yeah, exactly 😁

I'm not sure whether you're being silly and hyperbolic about this on purpose, or because you genuinely don't understand the measures taken to build relationships of trust in sensitive situations?

It's always important to remember when claiming most sexual assault is committed by men that a good number of places will now caveat that with something along the lines of "but as there is still a stigma around being a victim of a female abuser, particularly if you are male, then it is likely the data doesn't accurately reflect the situation as victims of female abuse are much less likely to speak out or to be believed". MN is classic for double standards in this sense.

Sexual abuse in nurseries is the least of your worries, I'd say, compared to neglect and physical abuse which are far more common place and are committed by both genders.

That's why the safeguarding procedures in place need to be robust and adhered to. It doesn't stop abuse but it should severally limit it.